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So.... Kereczr... since you joined the topic late... why not answer the OP question. You were quick to point out a bad cop, not to defend good ones. So... do you think cops are worse than gangs?
Of course not, it was a stupid question. No comparison. My original post, that started the arguing, was leveled towards a post that said no matter what a cop does, good or bad, you are to obey and say yes sir.
Of course not, it was a stupid question. No comparison. My original post, that started the arguing, was leveled towards a post that said no matter what a cop does, good or bad, you are to obey and say yes sir.
Sorry to burst your bubble.. but that IS partially true. If a cop says "step out of the car" You really don't have to say "Why?!?! What did I do?!!" you have to step out of the car. If a cop says "Get against the wall and spread your arms" that's what you have to do. Unless the police officer says something unlawful or so far out in left field that it's blatantly wrong "Get a room", "cut all your hair off" etc., then you have to obey the officers. That's where people get mixed up, thinking that lawful orders are optional and open for debate.
If David Koresch walked out of his Dividian compound in Waco when he was told to, how many people would have lived? If Randy Weaver in Idaho had done what law enforcement said, who would have been harmed. To me, once anyone does NOT do what is 'lawfully' requested, they are from that point on responsible for any actions that transpire afterwards.
Some cops are going to be idiots, we established that through 27 pages of dialogue. That horse is long dead and buried. But the bottom line is people need to respond to what cops tell them to lawfully do instead of arguing or fighting against it.
Sorry to burst your bubble.. but that IS partially true. If a cop says "step out of the car" You really don't have to say "Why?!?! What did I do?!!" you have to step out of the car. If a cop says "Get against the wall and spread your arms" that's what you have to do. Unless the police officer says something unlawful or so far out in left field that it's blatantly wrong "Get a room", "cut all your hair off" etc., then you have to obey the officers. That's where people get mixed up, thinking that lawful orders are optional and open for debate.
If David Koresch walked out of his Dividian compound in Waco when he was told to, how many people would have lived? If Randy Weaver in Idaho had done what law enforcement said, who would have been harmed. To me, once anyone does NOT do what is 'lawfully' requested, they are from that point on responsible for any actions that transpire afterwards.
Some cops are going to be idiots, we established that through 27 pages of dialogue. That horse is long dead and buried. But the bottom line is people need to respond to what cops tell them to lawfully do instead of arguing or fighting against it.
Once again you invalidated your own post. You said if an officer requests something lawfully you have to do it. I never said that this wasn't the case. I said a cops cant tell you to do whatever HE wants. If it is within the LAW, he can.
"I am just sick and tired of LEOs thinking that because they went through average classes for a short period of time, that they're gods"
First off i'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. How can say that officers go through average classes with out going through them yourself. That would be like me say that nurse's go through average class.
Officers for what ever reason do feel like they are god just for the fact that we are given powers that a majority of people are not. This feeling is what gets them into trouble sometimes.
"I am just sick and tired of LEOs thinking that because they went through average classes for a short period of time, that they're gods"
First off i'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. How can say that officers go through average classes with out going through them yourself. That would be like me say that nurse's go through average class.
Officers for what ever reason do feel like they are god just for the fact that we are given powers that a majority of people are not. This feeling is what gets them into trouble sometimes.
I do believe that in the same post that you quoted from I grouped them in with nurses. I am no fan of nurses behaving badly while they are in positions of power. Believe me, go back and reread, I said nurses as well. I don't like it when people have power over other people and abuse it. It truly does makes me VERY angry. I've seen bad nurses and you'd better believe that if I thought they did something worthy of contacting their supervisor I did.
Once again you invalidated your own post. You said if an officer requests something lawfully you have to do it. I never said that this wasn't the case. I said a cops cant tell you to do whatever HE wants. If it is within the LAW, he can.
Semantics. That's all you're doing now. If a cop walks up to your car, they can tell you to stay in it or get out. If he/she WANTS you to get out for no other reason than they want you to while they talk to you, you have to. Period. Call it what you want. There is a lot of flexibility in what they can and can't do. It comes down to what they want to do or feel is the best for their safety and yours.
Semantics. That's all you're doing now. If a cop walks up to your car, they can tell you to stay in it or get out. If he/she WANTS you to get out for no other reason than they want you to while they talk to you, you have to. Period. Call it what you want. There is a lot of flexibility in what they can and can't do. It comes down to what they want to do or feel is the best for their safety and yours.
Not really semantics. Did you miss the article posted in this very thread where a home owner beat the crap outta two cops that came into his house and was cleared of all charges? You know why he was cleared? Because the officers acted illegally by entering his home without a warrant.
If you are getting pulled over by an officer, more than likely you did something wrong. Once your vehicle has stopped you are now being detained. If he tells you to get out of the car for what ever reason whether you like it or not you have been given an lawful order. More than likely it is for safety reasons for either your or the officer.
Not really semantics. Did you miss the article posted in this very thread where a home owner beat the crap outta two cops that came into his house and was cleared of all charges? You know why he was cleared? Because the officers acted illegally by entering his home without a warrant.
So we're going back to the few exceptions not the rule. The mod really needs to close this thread.
All of you that think you can just keep disobeying officers.. if you think you're right.. go ahead. Me... I'm doing what I'm told as long as it doesn't have to do with running down the street with a grapefruit on my head.
If you are getting pulled over by an officer, more than likely you did something wrong. Once your vehicle has stopped you are now being detained. If he tells you to get out of the car for what ever reason whether you like it or not you have been given an lawful order. More than likely it is for safety reasons for either your or the officer.
And I don't disagree. I think you misunderstood what made me post my original post. You have to obey law enforcement, I don't deny that. My point is they don't have limitless power. Whatever power they have is constrained within the confines of the law and no more.
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