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Old 07-30-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Definition of Socialism (Merriam-Webster dictionary):

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

socialism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

The NAZI's did NOT own the means of production. Factories and other private property continued to be privately owned.

You are confusing Authoritarianism with Socialism. Authoritarianism can be either on the Right (Communism) or the Left (Fascism (ie the NAZI's)).

Work Camps have NOTHING to do with whether you are Socialist or not
Banning of Firearms has NOTHING to do with whether you are Socialist or not
ANY totalitarian government (either Right or Left) can do the things you mention.

Socialism has to do with OWNING THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION.
The NAZI's did not generally do that.
Porche continued to operate as a private company, so did Krupp, so did Messerschmitt and all the other major manufacturers in Germany.

Ken
Now I understand your problem, you are getting an incorrect definition from a stupid dictionary. The only part of that definition that is correct is the third part. Socialism does NOT advocate government ownership of private property, nor does it "own" the means of production, that is communism. Socialists are very much proponents of private property, as long as they control the means of production. Which is exactly what the NAZIs did, the NAZI government instituted the socialist work camps (and you will only find work camps among socialists and communists, they are a left-wing creation - take FDR and his TVA slave labor camps as yet another example of left-wing fascism) and controlled every aspect of the German economy.

1930s Germany was an extreme left-wing socialist fascist state.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:30 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,282,885 times
Reputation: 7627
Glitch -

Oh I see.

If you don't like the ACCEPTED definition of something you just choose to ignore that definition and make up YOUR OWN.

I guess if living in your own reality makes you happy, then go for it - but the truth of the matter is, you are living in a dream world.

Ken
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Glitch - the Nazi’s were an unholy allegiance of the right wing military and the righter wing business and industrialists that ruled the Third Reich. They used slave labor when they wanted to cut costs. They banned labor unions to keep wages and political activities down. They denied birth control so they could have more “Aryans” for their army of conquest. The Nazi’s were exactly what the extreme right wing manipulators running this country dream of becoming. One Country, One God, One Leader – all hail.
You are mistaken. NAZIs were left-wing socialist fascists hell-bent on social engineering. The German socialist fascists indocrinated their children, just like the socialist fascists in the US are doing as we speak. The NAZI's banned private unions in order to gain complete control over labor and therefore over production. Nancy Pelosi and Al Gore would've made Hitler proud.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,282,885 times
Reputation: 7627
And just so you know it, Germany did not even BEGIN to make ANY move to even coordindate the "Means of Production" until 1943 - long after both Britain and the US were doing so. Prior to that Germany was still on what was basically a peacetime economy with almost NO government intervention. It was only after the disaster at Stalingrad that the NAZI's began to exert any degree of control or coordination of factories.

Ken
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Glitch -

Oh I see.

If you don't like the ACCEPTED definition of something you just choose to ignore that definition and make up YOUR OWN.

I guess if living in your own reality makes you happy, then go for it - but the truth of the matter is, you are living in a dream world.

Ken
It is not the accepted definition, so don't lie. Communism is the government ownership of property and production, not socialism. If you had the education you claim, you know that to be true. Socialists support private property rights, and want control of production, not ownership. If you can't admit that your definition is completely bogus, then you are obviously not being intellectually honest.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,282,885 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It is not the accepted definition, so don't lie. Communism is the government ownership of property and production, not socialism. If you had the education you claim, you know that to be true. Socialists support private property rights, and want control of production, not ownership. If you can't admit that your definition is completely bogus, then you are obviously not being intellectually honest.
Oh yeah, Merriam-Webster - they're a real bogus outfit - only the top-selling dictionary.

Ken
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
And just so you know it, Germany did not even BEGIN to make ANY move to even coordindate the "Means of Production" until 1943 - long after both Britain and the US were doing so. Prior to that Germany was still on what was basically a peacetime economy with almost NO government intervention. It was only after the disaster at Stalingrad that the NAZI's began to exert any degree of control or coordination of factories.

Ken
Either you are deliberately lying, or you do not have the education you claim. Germany began creating slave labor camps the instant Hitler was declared Chancellor in January 1933. Between 1933 and 1939 Germany had set up more than 40 of these slave labor camps.

Concentration Camps, 1933-1939 | maps
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: los angeles
5,032 posts, read 12,589,969 times
Reputation: 1508
Well if you believe that Nazi\ socialist crap than you shouldn't be surprized by how many countries call themselves a "democracy" when they've ruled by a dictator.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:53 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,282,885 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Either you are deliberately lying, or you do not have the education you claim. Germany began creating slave labor camps the instant Hitler was declared Chancellor in January 1933. Between 1933 and 1939 Germany had set up more than 40 of these slave labor camps.

Concentration Camps, 1933-1939 | maps
Slave labor camps does NOT equate with being at a war time production. They have NOTHING to do with each other.

Albert Speer put Germany AT LAST into a wartime production state after Hitler made him Minister of Armaments and War after Fritz Todt was killed in a plane crash in 1942. Prior to that Todt had kept Germany on what was essentially a peacetime production rate - with little control over industry. Once Speer made the change, production of German armored vehicles went from around 4,000/year to 13,000/year.

Ken
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Slave labor camps does NOT equate with being at a war time production. They have NOTHING to do with each other.

Albert Speer put Germany AT LAST into a wartime production state after Hitler made him Minister of Armaments and War after Fritz Todt was killed in a plane crash in 1942. Prior to that Todt had kept Germany on what was essentially a peacetime production rate - with little control over industry. Once Speer made the change, production of German armored vehicles went from around 4,000/year to 13,000/year.

Ken
The slave labor camps and the abolishment of the unions in the 1930s was how the NAZIs took control of Germany's production. Which makes your statement a deliberate lie.

Quote:
And just so you know it, Germany did not even BEGIN to make ANY move to even coordindate the "Means of Production" until 1943
I see no point in continuing a discussion with someone who deliberately lies.
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