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Old 01-30-2007, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 763,337 times
Reputation: 169

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I'll offer a few additional questions:

Would it therefore be acceptable if the demographics of American colleges were 85% White, 10% Asian, 2.5% Black, and 2.5% Hispanic if such demographics were achieved without Affirmative Action? Would it be acceptable for Fortune 500 company upper managements to be 99% White and 99% male if achieved without Affirmative Action?

How do you regulate a society based solely on merit (and subsequently on environment) that favors the wealthy and those in the given environment (workplace, education, etc) majority (race, gender, religion, etc)?

I don't feel strongly in either way about Affirmative Action (despite being of a few minorities), but I think many focus solely on the idea that race supercedes qualifications and skillsets. However, when not abused, Affirmative Action is supposed to provide opportunities for minorities when, for example, two equally qualified persons are vying for the same position. In theory and when initially proposed, Affirmative Action is not to promote unskilled minorities, but those that are skilled and otherwise not allowed many opportunities to rise. Men are fallible, of course, so such is not always the case and often Affirmative Action is steered too far in the reverse direction.

I can only suppose how grateful thousands, if not millions, prior/present college students feel about their opportunity to achieve beyond what their peers, authority figures, and government thought possible due to the aid of Affirmative Action..
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:36 PM
 
77 posts, read 189,613 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
I'll offer a few additional questions:

Would it therefore be acceptable if the demographics of American colleges were 85% White, 10% Asian, 2.5% Black, and 2.5% Hispanic if such demographics were achieved without Affirmative Action? Would it be acceptable for Fortune 500 company upper managements to be 99% White and 99% male if achieved without Affirmative Action?

How do you regulate a society based solely on merit (and subsequently on environment) that favors the wealthy and those in the given environment (workplace, education, etc) majority (race, gender, religion, etc)?

I don't feel strongly in either way about Affirmative Action (despite being of a few minorities), but I think many focus solely on the idea that race supercedes qualifications and skillsets. However, when not abused, Affirmative Action is supposed to provide opportunities for minorities when, for example, two equally qualified persons are vying for the same position. In theory and when initially proposed, Affirmative Action is not to promote unskilled minorities, but those that are skilled and otherwise not allowed many opportunities to rise. Men are fallible, of course, so such is not always the case and often Affirmative Action is steered too far in the reverse direction.

I can only suppose how grateful thousands, if not millions, prior/present college students feel about their opportunity to achieve beyond what their peers, authority figures, and government thought possible due to the aid of Affirmative Action..
Amavel, I totally agree.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:37 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,671,581 times
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Ive seen different types of affirmative action. while working in heavy construction we were unable to bid on certain jobs, the goverment required a minority to have the bid. Good? yeah my company rented us out to a minority on paper. He got his 5% of the bid given to him (he had no employees or equipment) we got to do the work. I also got to have some minorities to work with us. HAD to. one sat on a bucket all day. the other did do his job very well and learned.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,369,363 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
Ive seen different types of affirmative action. while working in heavy construction we were unable to bid on certain jobs, the goverment required a minority to have the bid. Good? yeah my company rented us out to a minority on paper. He got his 5% of the bid given to him (he had no employees or equipment) we got to do the work. I also got to have some minorities to work with us. HAD to. one sat on a bucket all day. the other did do his job very well and learned.
Yup, that goes on all the time. Letting minorities sub contract out work for a minority only bid should be outlawed, AT THE LEAST. The whole program SHOULD be terminated, but I'd be satisfied in shutting out or throwing in jail the opportunistic minorities looking to rape the system.

-TT
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 763,337 times
Reputation: 169
Does anyone against Affirmative Action care to respond to my points a few posts up?
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:20 AM
 
9,715 posts, read 12,979,330 times
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Clarence Thomas has spoken out against Affirmative Action. I find that rather interesting since I don't believe he would be on the Supreme Court if it wasn't for Affirmative Action.

Our current president is a good example of a marginal white guy doing good. He was a C student most of his life and managed to lead at least one company into bankruptcy. If it weren't for family connections, I hate to think of what he'd be doing for a living.
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:30 AM
 
Location: The Bronx
1,587 posts, read 1,192,057 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
Clarence Thomas has spoken out against Affirmative Action. I find that rather interesting since I don't believe he would be on the Supreme Court if it wasn't for Affirmative Action.

Our current president is a good example of a marginal white guy doing good. He was a C student most of his life and managed to lead at least one company into bankruptcy. If it weren't for family connections, I hate to think of what he'd be doing for a living.
Heh, heh. So, I'm sure, does he.

It would probably involve asking people if they wanted fries with that burger.
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:35 AM
 
146 posts, read 530,867 times
Reputation: 180
Default Affirmative Action Negatively Affects Everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mint Green View Post
You did not answer my question. How has Affirmative Action affected you (positive or negative).
The racist policy of Affirmative Action negatively afftects everyone in the United States by using the criteria of skin color to affect admissions and selection into jobs and universitities. The politics of identity, quotas, and diversity have segregrated our society and undermined the civil rights work of the 60's.

Determining merit based on racial preference is a negative thing for all Americans. Haven't we figured this out already?
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:48 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,146,867 times
Reputation: 1436
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
He was a C student most of his life and managed to lead at least one company into bankruptcy. If it weren't for family connections, I hate to think of what he'd be doing for a living.
Funny thing is Bush according to college transcripts had better grades than the “genius Kerry” that the dems put up against him. I wonder how well Kerry would be living if he didn’t marry that gutter mouth who also married her millions.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:02 AM
 
146 posts, read 530,867 times
Reputation: 180
Exclamation Racial Preference v Performance Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
Would it therefore [color="Black"]be acceptable if the demographics of American colleges were 85% White, 10% Asian, 2.5% Black, and 2.5% Hispanic if such demographics were achieved without Affirmative Action? Would it be acceptable for Fortune 500 company upper managements to be 99% White and 99% male if achieved without Affirmative Action?
Yes. Merit should be the critieria for selection, not racial identity.

Your statement suggests a deficiency in the performance by non-whites. If these hypothetical students & Fortune 500 managers have been selected on merit and the overwhelming percentage selected are white, then we need to ask ourselves: why are minorties failing to perform at an acceptable level?

Quote:
How do you regulate a society based solely on merit (and subsequently on environment) that favors the wealthy and those in the given environment (workplace, education, etc) majority (race, gender, religion, etc)?
You are assuming that society favors wealth. We have a free market system. America favors competency. Regulation cannot morally or ethically be accomplished through racial preferencee. Fair competition requires selection based on merit and achievement. Performance standards should not be compromised just because certain groups fail, or are unable, to perform adequately. Gee, I didn't spend the time getting the high grades but put me in college anyway because I'm not white..

America favors those who work hard. Show me a kid who's raised in a culture of hard work and academics (instead of playing video games or hanging out on the corner, etc) and I'll show you a kid who's going to succeed regardless of environment. Merit is sound criteria, racial preference is bigotry.

Why should employers be forced to hire less than the best?

Quote:
However, when not abused, Affirmative Action is supposed to provide opportunities for minorities when, for example, two equally qualified persons are vying for the same position.
This is racist preference theory. Would you really support this statement if the preference in the scenario of "the same two equally qualified candidates vying for the same postion" was to always hire the white person? Of course not. Race shouldn't be a factor. Ever.


Quote:
I can only suppose how grateful thousands, if not millions, prior/present college students feel about their opportunity to achieve... due to the aid of Affirmative Action..
They should feel ashamed to have gotten a place based on skin color rather than merit. Many states even guarantee students, with certain academic acheivements, a place in the university system.

The admission of students based on racial profiling, rather than through academic achievment and merit, negatively affects the curriculum standards of these universitites. I've seen it in the public schools when less than qualified kids are placed in honors classes and AP programs with gifted kids. It's a mistake to socially promote. EVeryone suffers.

Last edited by english_teacher; 01-31-2007 at 10:24 AM..
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