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Old 01-28-2007, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 595,707 times
Reputation: 175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
Well, they already have Big Brother in Britian to the extreme and it has worked about as well as it has here with stopping Islamic radicals. You catch some, you miss some.
Big Brother in Britain? Where *do* you get your information?

In this country the press drags the government screaming through the streets with every broadsheet daily, the Prime Minister has to go on telly every week to get mocked in public forum, and the general public actually exercises its right to protest without being herded into special "free speech" zones.

If that's Big Brother, I'll take it over your "freedom" any day of the week.
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:45 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,788,961 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
Honestly, since I don't know you I'm going to try to say this with the utmost of respect...
you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
What, they didn't miss a few radicals when they blew up the subways? Yeah, they've had some successes as well. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:46 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,788,961 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
Big Brother in Britain? Where *do* you get your information?
Cameras everywhere filming people on the street. You don't call that Big Brother?
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 595,707 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
Cameras everywhere filming people on the street. You don't call that Big Brother?
If you're worried about Big Brother, think about the next time you use your discount card at the supermarket. You think they can't track what you're doing?

That compared to a crime camera tracking my movement across an intersection, honestly, I worry more for your privacy than mine.
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:01 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,788,961 times
Reputation: 332
It is much more than movement across the intersection, we have those too (for cars if that's what you mean). But, they have them to watch the public, which is what many people find disturbing. I know what you're saying about the discount card and personally I don't have one, but yes it's a little disturbing. But, they could do the same with our debit cards as well if they wanted.

This is an exerpt from the Houston Chronicle referring to Britons being watched:
LONDON -- Day after day, and sometimes late into the night, Felix Codrington watches the people of Wandsworth.

The 48-year-old is one of three local government officials charged with monitoring the 567 cameras that scan the streets and other public areas of the London borough.
.....
"We don't miss much," says Codrington, twiddling the joystick on his desk. "We've got cameras all over the place now."

The same goes for the rest of Britain. Over the last three years, the number of closed-circuit television cameras here has quadrupled to more than 4 million, making this the most watched country in the world, experts say.
....
Yet despite strong support for closed-circuit television, commonly called CCTV, as a crime-fighting tool, concerns are mounting that Britain is taking surveillance too far. With some observers predicting the country will have more surveillance cameras than people within a decade, civil liberty groups foresee a bleak, Orwellian future, where privacy is a thing of the past.
....


This is what I am referring to. Maybe this isn't the case where you live, but the thought of this type of sanctioned government surveillance is a little disturbing to me.
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,499,289 times
Reputation: 3826
Just want to inject my knowledge base into this discussion.

First, literature is alive and well in Arab speaking countries: Here is a good article about its history:

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/798/cu5.htm (broken link)

I am an avid reader and one of the books I read that left a memorable impression was Djaout's "The Last Summer of Reason." This is a masterful, poetic story of the interior life of a man I will never know and with whom I would have gladly shared bread. Djaout, with some possible prescience, tells the tale of societal alienation of one man, and brings all of us into the potential spotlight of what is moral and who is immoral. He was assassinated in his home country before the novel was completed.

On to the Netherlands: Holland is not liberal, and has never been liberal. The Netherlands attempts to incorporate a non-judgmental and pro-active approach to lifestyle. It uses as its base protective measures and prevention. It is with these philosophies that they allow the other to exist, and offer protection to those that elect to live outside the norm.

Pim Fortuyn was murdered in May of 2002; Theo van Gogh (pronounced like HogH) was murdered in November 2004--two years apart. While the two had voices raised regarding Islam, they were very different voices and their deaths not connected. The Netherlands recent change in policy is one that is reflective of past and present events. Nothing is done in the Netherlands without thoughtful think-tank ethics. It is with the whole in mind, always, that decisions are taken and never lightly.

It is not in the best interests of one of the smallest land-mass countries in the EU to absorb the number of immigrants it has, and immigrants that make it difficult to maintain the philosophy, spirit and national identity the Dutch have savoured.

They are not smarter than, or more worldly than their EU neighbours, but rather more centralized than most countries and have an historical view of what works best for the citizenry.
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 595,707 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
It is much more than movement across the intersection, we have those too (for cars if that's what you mean). But, they have them to watch the public, which is what many people find disturbing. I know what you're saying about the discount card and personally I don't have one, but yes it's a little disturbing. But, they could do the same with our debit cards as well if they wanted.

This is an exerpt from the Houston Chronicle referring to Britons being watched:
LONDON -- Day after day, and sometimes late into the night, Felix Codrington watches the people of Wandsworth.

The 48-year-old is one of three local government officials charged with monitoring the 567 cameras that scan the streets and other public areas of the London borough.
.....
"We don't miss much," says Codrington, twiddling the joystick on his desk. "We've got cameras all over the place now."

The same goes for the rest of Britain. Over the last three years, the number of closed-circuit television cameras here has quadrupled to more than 4 million, making this the most watched country in the world, experts say.
....
Yet despite strong support for closed-circuit television, commonly called CCTV, as a crime-fighting tool, concerns are mounting that Britain is taking surveillance too far. With some observers predicting the country will have more surveillance cameras than people within a decade, civil liberty groups foresee a bleak, Orwellian future, where privacy is a thing of the past.
....


This is what I am referring to. Maybe this isn't the case where you live, but the thought of this type of sanctioned government surveillance is a little disturbing to me.
Those cameras aren't in my home, or my place of work. And they have helped the police track down and arrest thousands of criminals.

No infringement on my privacy at all.

Now what's that about the President being privy to your phone calls?
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:17 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,788,961 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
Those cameras aren't in my home, or my place of work. And they have helped the police track down and arrest thousands of criminals.

No infringement on my privacy at all.

Now what's that about the President being privy to your phone calls?
Well, you're lucky then. As far as the prez and phone calls, he got in trouble and now they have to get a court order to listen in. I'm not too worried about my phone calls, since I'm not calling suicide bombers in Isreal or something. At best, they may get to listen in on my discussions of my dissertation with classmates or talking to my gf, which I don't think too many people would be that excited to hear anyway .
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:25 PM
 
31 posts, read 101,969 times
Reputation: 29
tnbound2day
grow up, change your diaper, hey do you need Bush to wipe you BUTT ALSO
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 595,707 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
Well, you're lucky then. As far as the prez and phone calls, he got in trouble and now they have to get a court order to listen in. I'm not too worried about my phone calls, since I'm not calling suicide bombers in Isreal or something.
Wow, cameras focused on street intersections and it's Big Brother, but someone listens to your phonecalls and it's no big deal?

Wow.
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