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There is an important consideration that is missing in this context. Israelis may be quick to take offense or to talk about their military's readiness. If I were in their shoes, I might do so as well. So might anyone.
Unlike their enemies, however, they do not kill, kidnap, or behead those who disagree with their beliefs.
There is a substantive difference between being an abrasive citizen of a democracy surrounded and threatened by murderous religious fanatics, and making such fanaticism and the resulting tribal hatred one's purpose in life.
In addition to being aggressive debaters, Israelis also engage in medical research, water desalinization projects benefitting humanity as a whole, and win Nobel prizes in a variety of scientific and academic fields.
They are citizens of a nation with work to do and lives to lead which have purpose and meaning beyond race hatred and endless war. Those who wish them destroyed have no other interests than that destruction, and no other way to achieve their ends (given Israel's vigorous efforts at self-defense) but by treachery, criminality, and the poisoning of the minds of children with vicious and hateful propaganda
Compare the two sides and what they have brought to mankind. Ask yourself which side is civilized -- and when you do, pause for a moment on the holocaust and on those who would either deny it or wish it repeated.
Support Israel -- how can we not? It is not just their survival which is at stake. It is also our own commitment to human civilization over the law of the jungle.
Much to your chagrin, I wholeheartedly support Israel's right to exist.
I don't support your socialist experiments of raining money endlessly, perhaps to overcome some sort of "gentile guilt" akin to the "white guilt" for blacks felt by like minded liberals.
Most Israelis I have met are American and Canadian Jews who lived over there for a few years (many of them serving in the IDF) and then came back. The two or so Israelis from Israel that I have met have mostly been in passing, so I cannot comment too much in personal experiences.
However, I have heard from many Jews who have visited that Israelis can be rather abrasive and quick to insult whatever nation you are from (whether you are a Jew or not), but on the plus side will usually shut up if you are quick witted enough to silence them back. I heard something along the lines of a claim that Israel's soldiers are better than anything the rest of the world has ever come up with, the reply was that the American, British, and Canadian soldiers did a good enough job freeing what would become many of Israel's first citizens from the Nazi camps without being superhuman Israelis.
I was told that shut the guy right up.
Israel only started receiving extensive military aid from the US after the Six Day War. That is still the 1948 war, the Suez Crisis, and the Six Day War they fought with little American support.
Can't take credit for it all.
Israelis can be very abrasive on the surface, but the reason native Israelis are called "Sabras" is that like the Sabra fruit, which is prickly on the outside but sweet on the inside, so are most Israelis. They are beneath the gruff exterior generous and kind hearted.
As far as quick to insult folks from other countries, that is not something I have experienced in the months that I have spent in Israel and knowing hundreds of Israelis here in the US. YMMV.
Much to your chagrin, I wholeheartedly support Israel's right to exist.
That's big of you, and of minimal interest to me. No chagrin involved. More like -- wow, next you'll acknowledge gravity.
Quote:
I don't support your socialist experiments of raining money endlessly, perhaps to overcome some sort of "gentile guilt" akin to the "white guilt" for blacks felt by like minded liberals.
The only money I "raise" goes into my own bank account. No socialism there. Just good old fashioned capitalist self-interest.
Sometimes I wonder what in the world you are mumbling about.
There is an important consideration that is missing in this context. Israelis may be quick to take offense or to talk about their military's readiness. If I were in their shoes, I might do so as well. So might anyone.
Unlike their enemies, however, they do not kill, kidnap, or behead those who disagree with their beliefs.
There is a substantive difference between being an abrasive citizen of a democracy surrounded and threatened by murderous religious fanatics, and making such fanaticism and the resulting tribal hatred one's purpose in life.
In addition to being aggressive debaters, Israelis also engage in medical research, water desalinization projects benefitting humanity as a whole, and win Nobel prizes in a variety of scientific and academic fields.
They are citizens of a nation with work to do and lives to lead which have purpose and meaning beyond race hatred and endless war. Those who wish them destroyed have no other interests than that destruction, and no other way to achieve their ends (given Israel's vigorous efforts at self-defense) but by treachery, criminality, and the poisoning of the minds of children with vicious and hateful propaganda
Compare the two sides and what they have brought to mankind. Ask yourself which side is civilized -- and when you do, pause for a moment on the holocaust and on those who would either deny it or wish it repeated.
Support Israel -- how can we not? It is not just their survival which is at stake. It is also our own commitment to human civilization over the law of the jungle.
Oh, I support Israel. It's the only Middle Eastern country that is a liberal democracy and considering that all its neighbors had at one point threatened to destroy it and the only Middle Eastern countries it had good relationships with are Turkey and pre-Revolution Iran (and that was mainly because those countries had been fighting with Arabs for centuries) and somewhat of a decent relationship with Jordan, I can understand the hawkish nature of Israeli foreign policy.
I was just saying that I've heard from many Jews and others who have visited Israel that a lot Israelis (especially the ones from Jerusalem and Haifa) can be very abrasive and cocky. But that is no reason to hate a country or wish for its demise. Israelis sound a lot like Germans (who I have known quite a few very well and met many others), they can be hard to like, but impossible not to respect. Which is the opposite of the French, very easy to like, but sometimes hard to respect.
Do any of you that don't support Israel think that if we stopped funding Israel then we would see a cessation in all terrorist attacks or a continued rise in militant Islam?
Don't know the answer to this one because we've never tried it. We could stop funding them for a period of time and see what happens. If it doesn't help we could give them money again.
Don't know the answer to this one because we've never tried it. We could stop funding them for a period of time and see what happens. If it doesn't help we could give them money again.
Tell you what. Let's cut off Egypt's allowance first and see what happens.
("At the 30th anniversary celebration of the U.S. aid program last year, the aid given totaled $28 billion, by far the largest amount of development aid given to any country in the world by the United States")
USAID Feature: Egypt Stories - U.S. Aid to Egypt Totals $28 Billion in Three Decades (http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/features/egypt/ - broken link)
Tell you what. Let's cut off Egypt's allowance first and see what happens.
1000% in agreement with you on cutting off both countries. They're both doing just fine
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