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Old 02-01-2007, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,482 times
Reputation: 169

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Do you apply that same reasoning to every sticky situation?

Darn, why'd the Jews try to come to America to escape the Gestapo? Darn, why'd the Rwandans try to flee the Tutsi regime? Darn, why did the seperatist pilgrims flee England?

I guess the Plymouth pilgrims were a bunch of weaklings, right?

Last edited by Amavel; 02-01-2007 at 01:19 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-01-2007, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,292 posts, read 14,586,718 times
Reputation: 6980
Mark, Winnie, nhyrnut-
Several issues here.
No one in Cuba thought he was a bad apple when he first came with the promised land story. Just like in relationships, after you get comfortable, you start to show your true colors. Why did everybody who could read in between the lines leave? Same reason you leave any oppressive situation.
Whether we should have left or not....I don't think anyone thought Castro would last 50 years. There were attempts from the exiles to overthrow him and they just didn't work out.
Perhaps a lot of Cubans will return soon enough. Maybe those that have not established themselves elsewhere already, the more recent newcomers who haven't yet adapted to a free world. Those with roots here, I doubt will ever go back permanently. It will take many, many, years to rebuild Cuba and it will never be what it was before Castro. Personally, and I've said before, I hope it changes enough in time for my retirement years so I can do just like the snowbirds.
I didn't "lose" anything. I was a little girl. My parents were just regular people. We did not have anything to be taken away, except your homeland, self-esteem and family.
Sure, Castro has trained all these professionals. All these doctors. How many defect? Not many. You know why? Because their famillies left behind will not survive if the "doctor" doesn't return.
Cuba has free healthcare. Try, just TRY, needing a aspirin, a band-aid, sutures, antibiotics. If you don't have family overseas who will supply the items needed, you might as well start getting your coffin. Castro sends everything outside. There isn't a stitch for the country's population.
Food...yeah right. No milk for children over 7 yrs. old. Half a dozen eggs a month for a family. Rice, oil, potatoes??? A piece of chicken? Yep. Black market with $$ sent by your coward relatives who managed to escape. Possession of red meat is a crime, punishable by death.
Castro sends everything and everybody out of the country to help others like he was some miracle cure while he has depleted Cuba of all its natural resources, its beauty, its people's ability to "see" or "think".
I could go on and on and on.
I think anybody who agrees that this man has been good for the island, that he is a benevolent and kind human being, really should go live there.
His brother...yeah he's bad too. But he's also old and he is much more capitalist than Fidel. He'll go to the highest bidder.

I've seen the documentaries and the pics. Tourist spots. Yeah they look pretty nice. Beautiful actually. But the real Cubans are not allowed into those places. Real cubans live in dilapidated, unsafe, unhealthy buildings, have no good drinking water, use kerosene to cook, no refrigerators, no decent transportation, and anything else we take for granted here.

Was it nhyrnut that doesn't agree with some of Castro's views? Pat yourself on the back that you can say this on this forum in this country. You wouldn't be alive in Cuba.

Last edited by vpcats; 02-01-2007 at 06:22 AM..
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:40 AM
 
11,585 posts, read 17,535,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vpcats View Post
I've seen the documentaries and the pics. Tourist spots. Yeah they look pretty nice. Beautiful actually. But the real Cubans are not allowed into those places.
I get a kick out of "tourist spot". Europeans and Canadians love Cuba, or should I say male Europeans and Canadians. There interest to travel there, shall I say, has nothing to do with pristine beaches and Castro's beautiful nirvana.
Yeah Cuban underage females willing to prostitute themeselves for $5 US a trick to feed there families, attracts lots of male tourists. Closer than Thailand.
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,292 posts, read 14,586,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I get a kick out of "tourist spot". Europeans and Canadians love Cuba, or should I say male Europeans and Canadians. There interest to travel there, shall I say, has nothing to do with pristine beaches and Castro's beautiful nirvana.
Yeah Cuban underage females willing to prostitute themeselves for $5 US a trick to feed there families, attracts lots of male tourists. Closer than Thailand.
I won't argue with you there. That's how low people are willing to go to survive. You grow up very quickly down there and Necessity is the mother of invention. That's what the system has done. Devalued any morals or principles one might have had. It's not just prostitution. There's a bartering system for everything crumb of bread you ingest.
Some of these girls are lucky enough to marry these "tourists" and can leave the country so they can support their families from outside and maybe become "respectable" again. You know what, I don't blame them. Men have eaten human flesh when they had to survive. It's the same analogy.
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Miami
566 posts, read 1,840,486 times
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You know I can understand from an unclouded emotional point of view some of the facts you have stated and you do have some good points, but I like to hear from both sides of both coins and not get clouded and dead set so easily & fooled from the media so easily. I need a rounded sense to really form an accurate balanced opinion. Up to now here, from the English speaking media, all I seem to hear or see is Castro's humanitarian achievements, but what I don't see or hear are the testimonials/footage (the other side of their coin) I hear on spanish speaking media, that is not shown on English channels, that gives this other sides views... and all from these very same docs going around spreading Castro's humanitarion deeds in 3rd world countries. According to these mass produced docs (spitted out like in 5yrs, not like here), they go on these humanitarian missions to get out of there, to be able to either practice their profession w/equipment or meds that they can't obtain over there or like the majority have testified to be able to see if they can sneak out from the blink of an eye of Castro's eagle eyes (goons that travel with them every second of the day so they don't do just that) and be able to defect not just to Miami because they think it's better or not...but any place than can afford them basic human rights and human dignity that any human being should have on this planet.
These very same docs living in L. America claim that in Cuba they have to resort to the tourist based jobs, & some have even had to resort to prostitution to be able to get food, aspirin or even a bar of soap for their families - they claim they cannot offer it's own people/even their own families the same treatment they offer other countries or tourists that visit the island. Not even prescribe a glass of milk to their own innocent child whom might need it for his little growing bones or give him an aspirin if the child has a fever.
For instance now, let's take what's going on with his adopted son Chavez. Both of them are sending it's poorest from other countries, not just Venezuela (whom by the way has it's own top notch Venezuelan licensed docs and are not being allowed to practice anymore, but unlicensed Cuban's are?) to Cuba for much needed operations that they cannot afford in their homelands. Yes, it's an honorable humanitarian thing to do, but what about the millions of Cuban people living in his island??? Why should these other poor people from Honduras, Ecuador, Venezuela and on & on throughout L. America get preferential treatment... and food, transportion & logdings at the best hotels for free - when even Cuban people can't go/or even visit these hotels, let alone get rides anyhwere?? And these other non-native people, that get these free medical services, go and talk wonderful things and are like free Ambassadors to al Latin America - more free propoganda for Castro and he is succeeding at a rapid rate & all right next door to us. Here is an example of a man that went w/his daughter recently, he just stated in the Nuevo Herald that he felt like a king In Cuba and he cannot believe how well he was treated and all for free, he literally said in his words, "Now, I'm Cuba's ambassador and will tell everyone in my country how well I was treated in Cuba.."
But please I repeat again, "What about the Cuban people????" Will they always till eternity be the sacrificial lambs? Doesn't anyone see this??? If his unique regime worked fabulously and it's people would be taken care of, then I'd see this spreading of humanitarian goodwill a good positive thing as no one wants to see people suffering... also, if the regime worked so well why are they (&the docs) leaving in droves or throwing themselves out to sea if everthing was so peachy?
The true fact and the whole point of Cuba is the 'Cuban people..'.and they have always paid the price and left to fend for themselves like beasts. Does this seem right? Doesn't this seem a wee bit fishy???
You know like I said before I have know people that are true Communist's and I respect their views, even if they are not my views. But even they cannot swallow or follow him just because he hides behind a Communist mask, because he is NOT a true communist...he is a Fidelista which is a regime uniquely made by him, for him and his inner circle only - not for the Cuban people at all.

Last edited by lulu; 02-01-2007 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Miami
566 posts, read 1,840,486 times
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It's amazing isn't it???
I find all this logic so fascinating, that sometimes I don't know if I should laugh or cry... wonder where people went to school? Are they really that American like apple pie??
Whew, no wonder the world cannot take us seriously and then we wonder why?
Yep, let's send everyone back after their home country gets all fixed up.
Ok...just naming a few from the top of my head cause I'd need an encyclopedia edition but here's a few we can start sending back...N.Y. are you listening?? Any Irish from the 1840's out there, Italians from the Mussolini era?? Any Russians?? Chinese?? Japanese? Jews?? Well, these are hard cause they come from allover but maybe we should send back to an newly created Israel that even most never saw. How 'bout our black brothers and sisters of African ancestry that we brought over? Send them to an Africa they've never been too? Any others from the Colombus or even Plymouth ships out there, want me to grab rent a couple 2007 a/c yachts as we can't go together, you know... to go back after all these centuries??? Hey, at least we'd go out in luxury and get wasted with some fine aged brandy/whisky & some caviar this time around.
Ohhh...wait, how about the ones that are of mixed cultures/races should different body parts be sent to different parts of the world?? Does any of this rationale really make any sense??? Ha, ha, ha...too much.

Last edited by lulu; 02-01-2007 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 02-01-2007, 04:39 PM
 
Location: N.H.
1,022 posts, read 3,150,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vpcats View Post
Was it nhyrnut that doesn't agree with some of Castro's views? Pat yourself on the back that you can say this on this forum in this country. You wouldn't be alive in Cuba.
Yes it was but I said MOST not some. LOL I know what you speak of Unlike most I do look at both sides. Has he done bad things YES I never said otherwise. But my point was he has done good as well. It might not out weigh the bad By some ppls opinions but he has. I jst wish ppl would look at history and realize it could have been diffrent have we of helped. Not nesasarly perfrect but IMO better than it is now. It is reasons like this that the USA should help others when asked. As you said yourself his intentions where good at the time, but power does strange things. Personally I would lift the embargo and let nature take it's corse. But aside from that Yes I know what you speak of. That is why I satted I don't agree with MOST his views.
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Old 02-01-2007, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Miami
566 posts, read 1,840,486 times
Reputation: 162
I agree power does some really strange things...and yes I would've lifted the embargo like yesterday. I can understand the pain of some here and why they don't want to fuel money into the island cause it empowers Castro - all valid points. But this has not done anything, so something isn't working. The why I figure why not try a gamble & let the world visit and see what happens. Since they don't have access to free press, millions live like hermits and have no idea really what's going on in the world. They don't even know what is happening with their leader right now, which is incomprehensible to me & very cruel on their part. They his followers are going around like zombies, going "where is he? or where's Raul?". Anyhow, with outside communication they can learn by talking/sharing with them - things about the outside world and they will be capable to form their own opinions. If the Cuban people want what they have, as hard as it is for most here, then it would have to be respected, but what if they don't? At least they will be empowered by the knowledge they learned & have/hide some pocket change from the outside interaction and hopefully they can end this fiasco for once & for all.

Last edited by lulu; 02-01-2007 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,292 posts, read 14,586,718 times
Reputation: 6980
Lulu. If Castro had let everybody go visit, it would have been impossible to keep the people blindfolded and scared. When he did start letting Cubans go visit their families and resorts were built for the Europeans and Canadians, people started questioning things but they are deathly afraid of saying anything because once the visitors leave, the others are still stuck behind. Everything in Cuba is censored and everything is a State secret.
I think Raul may be more agreeable to more open visitation and trade and hopefully that will be the beginning of the end.
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:25 AM
 
1,330 posts, read 4,540,873 times
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VPcats, i don't care if Cubans decide to stay or not after the country stabilizes and improves. Their choice IMO. I assume that some would consider it.

Many people I have met from the Carribean (mostly through charity health care work) love their homelands quite a bit and even through they visited America to get their operations and they saw how much more we have here they seemed to miss their homelands after a long stay. I heard it is quite beautiful...even families and kids who came from poor areas of Santo Domingo could not wait to get back on the plane to see the rest of their family and have a home cooked meal. Of course, we would take them out shopping for nice clothes and spoil them while they were here.

I also don't care (should say "blame" them) if the Cuban people chose to flee instead of fight. My family immigrated here at the turn of the century instead of trying to make things work in Italy.

But I just don't see the sense in celebrating his death until Cuba is changed. Simply because you might be celebrating the demise of one tyrant and the ascension of another.
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