Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:44 PM
 
2,769 posts, read 7,209,052 times
Reputation: 1482

Advertisements

Not worried one bit here.

You put your focus on what could happen in this world and you'll make yourself sick. Rather than watching news and focusing on all the negative stuff out there I focus on the positive, that isn't to say life is perfect, it just means I choose not to trust in what could be, but rather trust in God and always remember that this world is his, he has the final say ultimately in what goes on, not the USA or Russia.

Life must go on despite these unfortunate situations that exist in our world, and I just assume to keep on living and thinking positive instead of letting fear control my day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,392,732 times
Reputation: 10343
I don't think there is anything to worry about. Really. The world is integrated on so many levels that one nation of significance cannot engage another nation of significance in direct warfare without suffering serious losses itself. When I say 'significance', I'm speaking of countries with a strong economy, a strong military (especially nuclear but not necessarily so), the source for substantial natural resources, a well-respected/shared culture, etc.

Our economy is heavily dependent on China for a variety of reasons. Although Russia is less integrated with our economy, they are certainly integrated into the Western European economy. All four countries/groups of countries (US, Russia, China, W. E.) and several other nations like Japan, Canada, and Australia have multiple interests that required a significant amount of investment in time, money, and effort. War would undo all of that. There is too much to lose. Many of these alliances are uncomfortable/unusual, require the partners to overlook inconvenient truths/facts about the other, and demand a short memory.

If you don't believe this, ask yourself how the United States can, on one hand, criticize China about human rights, the environment, its relationship with Taiwan and Tibet, the fact that it is a Communist country, etc. but then hang out with them at the Olympics.

Why? Money.

If you still don't believe this, look at Saudi Arabia. Women's rights? Religious tolerance? Unknown, real, position on fundamentalist Islamic induced/motivated terrorism? We turn a blind eye to all of that.

Again...money. Or more precisely, the oil that drive the economy that makes the money.

The most obvious thing I can think of when it comes to an uneasy relationship with Russia is the space station, Alpha One. Space stuff is too expensive for one nation to tackle, in the long haul, by itself. It might be easier to kick Russia to the curb on that one, but then we'd be kissing several billion dollars goodbye (that damn money thing again).

For the United States to go to war with Russia or China, the US, in my opinion, would have to be attacked directly. I am all in favor for nuking them to hell if they did that. The same is true in reverse. I would expect them to nuke us to hell for attacking them. Because all three know this, none of them will attack directly. They will engage in proxy wars using the rest of the world as a chessboard. Or we 'punish' each other, and other nations of significance, with other tools that make everybody take notice without blowing stuff up - economic sanctions, denying entry into economic organizations, prohibiting technology transfers, etc.

Which leads us to an unfortunate reality - for Georgia. That country is a pawn. Hard to hear for the Georgians, I am certain, but there is no way I would advocate going to war for them. They made strategic geopolitical mistakes; we should not shoulder the burden of digging them out a hole they put themselves in. Anyone who thinks we should roll into Russia over this is a nut. They'd go nuclear. We would, too, if they rolled into [insert your state here].

There are a bunch of other pawns out there that I can think of...

Anyway, what you're seeing is a lot of posturing.

The countries and/or organizations that we should be really worried about are the ones with nothing to lose and everything (real or perceived) to be gained. See Al-Qaeda and the 72 virgins, eternal heaven, etc. etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:49 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,789,455 times
Reputation: 2519
If the war was conventional,I cannot see why people are frightened by Russia....its main battle tank is the T-72.

Y'all know what year it entered service?
1973.....thirty plus years ago.
Remember all those tanks the USA blew to Hell in Iraq,they were T-72s.

The Russian carrier heading into the Med,it carries the SU-33.
The SU-33 was designed to combat the F-14 tomcat....the USA no longer flies the Tomcat because it is obsolete.

Y'all know how many SU-33s the carrier has on board?
Twelve.....a US carrier has around 90 fixed wing aircraft on board,including four squadrons of Super Hornets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:50 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,718,714 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryant View Post
Given I"m a little prone to obsession, I'm still scared of a possible war between Russia and the US. I don't understand our love affair with Georgia, our provocation of placing missile shields in former Warsaw Pact countries. I also don't like how Russia continues to lie about withdrawing forces from Georgia. All in all, I've worried myself sick about a possible military confrontation. Does anyone see a glimmer of hope in all of this? Will this crisis blow over in time? Also, do you guys think that the tension now is as severe as it was during the height of the Cold War?
We're not going to go to war with Russia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:54 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,321,827 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
I don't think there is anything to worry about. Really. The world is integrated on so many levels that one nation of significance cannot engage another nation of significance in direct warfare without suffering serious losses itself. When I say 'significance', I'm speaking of countries with a strong economy, a strong military (especially nuclear but not necessarily so), the source for substantial natural resources, a well-respected/shared culture, etc.

Our economy is heavily dependent on China for a variety of reasons. Although Russia is less integrated with our economy, they are certainly integrated into the Western European economy. All four countries/groups of countries (US, Russia, China, W. E.) and several other nations like Japan, Canada, and Australia have multiple interests that required a significant amount of investment in time, money, and effort. War would undo all of that. There is too much to lose. Many of these alliances are uncomfortable/unusual, require the partners to overlook inconvenient truths/facts about the other, and demand a short memory.

If you don't believe this, ask yourself how the United States can, on one hand, criticize China about human rights, the environment, its relationship with Taiwan and Tibet, the fact that it is a Communist country, etc. but then hang out with them at the Olympics.

Why? Money.

If you still don't believe this, look at Saudi Arabia. Women's rights? Religious tolerance? Unknown, real, position on fundamentalist Islamic induced/motivated terrorism? We turn a blind eye to all of that.

Again...money. Or more precisely, the oil that drive the economy that makes the money.

The most obvious thing I can think of when it comes to an uneasy relationship with Russia is the space station, Alpha One. Space stuff is too expensive for one nation to tackle, in the long haul, by itself. It might be easier to kick Russia to the curb on that one, but then we'd be kissing several billion dollars goodbye (that damn money thing again).

For the United States to go to war with Russia or China, the US, in my opinion, would have to be attacked directly. I am all in favor for nuking them to hell if they did that. The same is true in reverse. I would expect them to nuke us to hell for attacking them. Because all three know this, none of them will attack directly. They will engage in proxy wars using the rest of the world as a chessboard. Or we 'punish' each other, and other nations of significance, with other tools that make everybody take notice without blowing stuff up - economic sanctions, denying entry into economic organizations, prohibiting technology transfers, etc.

Which leads us to an unfortunate reality - for Georgia. That country is a pawn. Hard to hear for the Georgians, I am certain, but there is no way I would advocate going to war for them. They made strategic geopolitical mistakes; we should not shoulder the burden of digging them out a hole they put themselves in. Anyone who thinks we should roll into Russia over this is a nut. They'd go nuclear. We would, too, if they rolled into [insert your state here].

There are a bunch of other pawns out there that I can think of...

Anyway, what you're seeing is a lot of posturing.

The countries and/or organizations that we should be really worried about are the ones with nothing to lose and everything (real or perceived) to be gained. See Al-Qaeda and the 72 virgins, eternal heaven, etc. etc.
They are scared the missile defense systems takes away the nuclear deterrent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:57 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,321,827 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
If the war was conventional,I cannot see why people are frightened by Russia....its main battle tank is the T-72.

Y'all know what year it entered service?
1973.....thirty plus years ago.
Remember all those tanks the USA blew to Hell in Iraq,they were T-72s.

The Russian carrier heading into the Med,it carries the SU-33.
The SU-33 was designed to combat the F-14 tomcat....the USA no longer flies the Tomcat because it is obsolete.

Y'all know how many SU-33s the carrier has on board?
Twelve.....a US carrier has around 90 fixed wing aircraft on board,including four squadrons of Super Hornets.
They spend 50 billion a year we spend 500 billion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Western, Colorado
1,599 posts, read 3,105,209 times
Reputation: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubbltunman View Post
I understand your concerns. But, the big but, I'm more concerned of a "false flag" operation of Israel on a U.S. naval vessel. Blaming the deaths and destruction on Iran by way of using Iranian weapons, and sending false communications from Tehran to look as if Iran is behind it. Israel is desperate to involve the U.S. in their dirty deeds in the middle east, including the annihilation of Arabs/Muslim threats in the region. Any Americans with any common sense would be able to pick up on this, for it is widely known Israel did this once before on the USS Liberty. Don't expect our established "media" to even question this scenario either, the propaganda machine would have most Americans rally behind a counter attack on Iran, making once again fools of most Americans to swallow the bull, and most of the civilized world to again shake their heads in disbelief and wonder just how stupid are the Americans?

It is my belief that a war on Iran would completely destroy what's left of our economy, $6.00 a gallon gas at the start of such a war, ? who knows how high it will climb afterwards? The U.S. would no longer be a "super power" either. Bottom line is: no matter if some of you want war with Iran or not, some now say the neo-cons have already planned it. The writing is on the wall, and "America" will never be the same if we go into Iran.

So please don't fret over Russia, I believe we'll never war with them, posturing and pandering. We could nuke this world over 100 times and we both know it.

If something does "happen" and the war drums beat for Iran, please remember what you read here, think about how the media is delivering their "facts", just think a little, and the hint of the truth may smack you in the face.

Loosen the tin foil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,392,732 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
They are scared the missile defense systems takes away the nuclear deterrent.
The Russians? Scared? I think it is more about the United States establishing itself within Russia's sphere of influence. Pride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,392,732 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
If the war was conventional,I cannot see why people are frightened by Russia....its main battle tank is the T-72.

Y'all know what year it entered service?
1973.....thirty plus years ago.
Remember all those tanks the USA blew to Hell in Iraq,they were T-72s.

The Russian carrier heading into the Med,it carries the SU-33.
The SU-33 was designed to combat the F-14 tomcat....the USA no longer flies the Tomcat because it is obsolete.

Y'all know how many SU-33s the carrier has on board?
Twelve.....a US carrier has around 90 fixed wing aircraft on board,including four squadrons of Super Hornets.
I don't think that war will happen. But for the sake of discussion, if it did, I don't see how it would stay conventional for long. Accepting your argument that Russia's military is qualitatively inferior, they would most likely even the playing field by shifting to nukes. Especially if they start to suffer significant losses in a conventional war.

It is like being me being in a fight with Bruce Lee. He will be a better fighter and he'll kick my butt. But if I have a gun on me, at some point I'm going to pull the trigger - especially if it is about survival.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2008, 11:16 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,321,827 times
Reputation: 4798
Hence the need for a missile defense system and why they don't want it.

Even if they have 100% full access to it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top