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Lilypad, I lived for two years in Jordan, where all my friends and social acquaintances were these people that you just told me about. I was a full-time student for a year at the University of Jordan, and I taught English to literally hundreds of Jordanians. My wife was a supervising nurse, and treated thousands of Jordanian patients.
I have also been an invited guest in the private homes of people in Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not rich, westernized, foreign-educated people---just regular folks.
I have visited Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Iran, Pakisran, Bangladesh, Malaysia and Indonesia.
I can hadly wait for you to "educate" me about these people whom you know so intimately. Before you undertake to educate me, I suggest you get over your abject refusal to read anything that relates to their culture.
Since you are so well travelled, maybe you can enlighten us??
Why is Islam such a violent and repressive religion and form of government?
Why is there such a huge level of terrorism perpetrated by muslims today?
Why don't we hear an outcry from the more moderate muslims against the direction that their religion has been taken in?
I'd really be interested in your answer...
I began to get one hell of an education on 9/11, and it has been expended upon almost daily by the things that I hear muslims do around the world.
Yes, jtur I would be happy (and quite geniunly so) for your perspective on this. I have tried asking muslims that post on the religion board to explain how honor killings and terrorism jibes with islam and their explanations go in a rather circular direction -- could be the language barrier. At anyrate, what I got from them was it is a societies obligation to make sure everyone toes the line, and if they don't - they get the punishment they know all along was coming. Besides, if they suffer in death on earth it will mean a better chance of allah forgiving them in heaven. Oh, and at least their women aren't wh**** like western women
Is that right? Or was something lost in translation?
Here's another bit of education - something just posted on the newswires recently:
"five women - among them three teenage schoolgirls - buried alive in the province of Baluchistan because they wanted to marry men of their choice in defiance of the wishes of tribal leaders."
The only ones expressing outrage over this seems to be groups from western countries. I guess we just don't appreciate the finer aspects of muslim culture - right?
Do a Google search on 'honor killings' and you will get over a million hits.
Thank you, Mr. Bob, for asking intelligent questions that actually seek understanding.
Why is Islam such a violent and repressive religion and form of government?
----It is not nearly as violent and repressive as Christianity was, from before the middle ages right up through the imperial era, which ended about 1955.
Why is there such a huge level of terrorism perpetrated by muslims today?
---Because they feel that they are being put upon by an alien culture trying to impose its own will and culture on nations that are predominatly Islam. First there was the Crusades. Then Christians in Europe imposed imperial rule, by force of arms, on virtually the entire Muslim world. Then, they ripped Palestime away from her people, and handed her over to the Zionsts. Muslims possess two qualities that are unimaginable to western thinkers: Memory and patience.
Why don't we hear an outcry from the more moderate muslims against the direction that their religion has been taken in?
---Maybe you would, if you would listen. Fox News cannot be depended upon to relay the message.
I began to get one hell of an education on 9/11, and it has been expended upon almost daily by the things that I hear muslims do around the world.
---Compare 9/11 with the US bombings of Libya. Muslims began getting one hell of an education about a millenium before 9/11.
Regarding 9/11. Would we have gone to war, if all they had done was hijack four planes and crash them? The deaths in the WTC were a one-in-a-million shot. People died there not because planes crashed into them, but because the faulty buildings fell down, after employes were whipped back into their cubicles and told there was nothing wrong, and it most likely fell down due to structural failures caused by contractors greedily ignoring code. Had Americans cared more about safety and less about profits, WTC by the end of the day would have been fully evacuated buildings still standing, and we would not have gone to war.
If the terrorists REALLY wanted to murder the maximum number of innocent Americans, do you think they could have thought of a more effective target? Like a football stadium on a weekend afternoon? There could have been no realistic expectation that the crashing of a plane into a building like that would kill anybody except those on board the plane. So the symbolic gesture must have been the objective, not the deaths of innocent civilians in maximized numbers.
Furthermore, the WTC housed most of the corporations that the radical Muslims thought of as the enemy. This, to them, was an economic war, and US capitalixm was the enemy. That made the offices of the capitalists a useful tactical target, where they could do the most strategic damage. To them, the workers in the WTC were the foot-soldiers of their economic enemy. As surely as munitions workers in factories in WWII---civilians who were exterminated in every bombing raid. George W. Bush has repeated over and over again the mantra that you can't have a war without innocent people getting hurt, and he continues to use that himself to justify his own war of aggression.
It can be very eye-opening to think about war from the viewpoint of the enemy.
Thank you, Mr. Bob, for asking intelligent questions that actually seek understanding.
Why is Islam such a violent and repressive religion and form of government?
----It is not nearly as violent and repressive as Christianity was, from before the middle ages right up through the imperial era, which ended about 1955.
Why is there such a huge level of terrorism perpetrated by muslims today?
---Because they feel that they are being put upon by an alien culture trying to impose its own will and culture on nations that are predominatly Islam. First there was the Crusades. Then Christians in Europe imposed imperial rule, by force of arms, on virtually the entire Muslim world. Then, they ripped Palestime away from her people, and handed her over to the Zionsts. Muslims possess two qualities that are unimaginable to western thinkers: Memory and patience.
Why don't we hear an outcry from the more moderate muslims against the direction that their religion has been taken in?
---Maybe you would, if you would listen. Fox News cannot be depended upon to relay the message.
I began to get one hell of an education on 9/11, and it has been expended upon almost daily by the things that I hear muslims do around the world.
---Compare 9/11 with the US bombings of Libya. Muslims began getting one hell of an education about a millenium before 9/11.
jtur,
What a typical response.
I talk of evils of Islam of the 21st century - and all you can do is talk about the bad points of Christianity of the middle ages... Christianity reformed itself hundreds of years ago - what's taking Islam so long? Christianity was never as violent as Islam is today - I beg to differ big time. And saying that Christianity was violent up til 1955 is total crap.
And I don't care how threatened muslims are taught to feel about western culture - they have no damn right to express themselves thru violence. Their religious and government leaders should stop preaching hatred and inciting the mobs to violence!!
The bombing of Libya by Reagan was in direct response to violent actions perpetrated by Kadafi against the west - you know that quite well.
In fact every single western attack on muslim countries is in retaliation for a previous muslim attack on the west.
You strike me as the typical muslim who supports the terrorists and just won't come out and admit it. You can't reason with these people, you can't debate them intelligently. THey have been so thoroughly brainwashed to hate and defend any isults against Islam with violence that it would take years of deconditioning to get them to think rationally.
Thank you, Mr. Bob, for asking intelligent questions that actually seek understanding.
Why is Islam such a violent and repressive religion and form of government?
----It is not nearly as violent and repressive as Christianity was, from before the middle ages right up through the imperial era, which ended about 1955.
Why is there such a huge level of terrorism perpetrated by muslims today?
---Because they feel that they are being put upon by an alien culture trying to impose its own will and culture on nations that are predominatly Islam. First there was the Crusades. Then Christians in Europe imposed imperial rule, by force of arms, on virtually the entire Muslim world. Then, they ripped Palestime away from her people, and handed her over to the Zionsts. Muslims possess two qualities that are unimaginable to western thinkers: Memory and patience.
Why don't we hear an outcry from the more moderate muslims against the direction that their religion has been taken in?
---Maybe you would, if you would listen. Fox News cannot be depended upon to relay the message.
I began to get one hell of an education on 9/11, and it has been expended upon almost daily by the things that I hear muslims do around the world.
---Compare 9/11 with the US bombings of Libya. Muslims began getting one hell of an education about a millenium before 9/11.
Forgot one item...
Please post some web links to areas where we can see how moderate muslims are speaking out against terrorism and the harsh aspects of Sharia?
And for your info - I rarely watch Fox News. I get most of my info from NPR, The New York Times, Huffington Post, Chicago Tribune, CNN....
And one final note - we in the west have 2 qualitiies that are very foreign to muslims - Inclusiveness of other races and cultures, and personal freedom
[quote=mrbob;5165945]Here's another bit of education - something just posted on the newswires recently:
"five women - among them three teenage schoolgirls - buried alive in the province of Baluchistan because they wanted to marry men of their choice in defiance of the wishes of tribal leaders."
The only ones expressing outrage over this seems to be groups from western countries. I guess we just don't appreciate the finer aspects of muslim culture - right?
Do a Google search on 'honor killings' and you will get over a million hits.
What does that say about Islam?[/quote]
That's a rhetorical question with a very violent and anti-woman answer!
Please post some web links to areas where we can see how moderate muslims are speaking out against terrorism and the harsh aspects of Sharia?
And for your info - I rarely watch Fox News. I get most of my info from NPR, The New York Times, Huffington Post, Chicago Tribune, CNN....
And one final note - we in the west have 2 qualitiies that are very foreign to muslims - Inclusiveness of other races and cultures, and personal freedom
I wouldn't waste my time, but here is the page link to CAIR ([SIZE=4]Council on American-Islamic Relations[/SIZE]), perhaps some OP can find some socially redeeming pro-American, anti-violence positions. If so, please post same so that we can all partake in the fruits of your labor.
I always ask what's the motivation for such stories? I think if most of what we read of Middle Eastern countries are the stories that would tend to shock us, then something is wrong. It must be deliberate. I would counter that we not forget the stories THEY could read about us: the Columbines, the mass murderers, the rampant drug use, etc. Heck, all they have to do is watch "Saw" to get some semblance of our own insanity since it was so popular we made 3 sequels! What does that say about our culture?
While this story is indeed sad, it should not be used to make blanket judgments about all of the Middle East or its customs.
Are you for real???? Let me explain the difference: in our country, when a person commits a crime, he gets arrested, goes on trial, and if convicted, goes to jail or gets executed. In the Middle East, these "customs" you speak so tolerantly of are actually protected by LAW. In most ME countries, killing a female for "honor" is either absolutely condoned by law, or else given the "wink wink" treatment.
Your use of a Hollywood MOVIE as analogous to Middle Eastern REAL LIFE should require no comment.
Drunkenness is completely unknown in those "culturally reatarded" countries, where alcohol is prohibited by their religion. Those "culturally retarded" people never leave their children, even for a few minutes, in a yellow-pages day-care center to be parked in front of a TV to watch cartoons that focus on violence. Nor do those "culturally retarded" ship grandma off to slowly die alone in a nursing home.
Drug abuse and homosexuality as well as pedophilia is RAMPANT in Middle Eastern culture.
I cannot reveal how I know this, but I urge you to do a little research before you paint such a false and distorted picture of this barbaric ideology masquerading as a religion.
I suggest you also read Dr. Wafa Sultan, Aayin Hirsi Ali, Irshad Manji and Brigitte Gabriel. Here is a website of Muslims who have left Islam:
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