Should the blue states secede from the union? (Representatives, health care, Obama)
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When Bush won re-election, lefties were threatening secession or moving to Canada.
Heard some celebs say they would consider moving to another country, but I never heard talk of tear apart the nation, I only hear that said in serious tones from the right.
Casper
I admit when Bush was President and the GOP ran Congress there were times this idea seemed very tempting to me. I'd propose something else instead: Let's go back to governing this country more by consensus than by one-party getting its own way when it wins a single election. Here are some examples of what I mean
1. Healthcare. I'd love a single payer system, but its not going to happen. Let's accept the notion that reform is going to have to be incremental and take time. It can't happen immediately. Let's start by setting standards all private insurance must follow, subsidizing some groups so they can have insurance, and consider the notion of starting non-profit insurance cooperatives to provide coverage for those who can't afford it.
2. The economy. We have the fiscal stimulus in place. Let's accept that its as large as its going to get. If the economy needs more help, we are going to have to do it more grudgingly. When it does get back on its feet, we need to focus on not only running a budget surplus, but paying down some of the national debt.
3. Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. Stabilize both countries and draw down the troops. The troops in Iraq should be drawn down quickly. We have done as much as we can there. Its time for them to sink or swim. Above all, let's take care of the veterans from these wars. These men and women have served their nation and deserve our respect.
4. Environmental Policy. Compromise, compromise, and compromise. Implement some watered-down version of "cap and trade" and move on.
I've heard too much divisive rhetoric from liberal and conservative groups. All that crap about "Dumbocrats" and "Repukes" is just BS. If you don't have a real argument to make than ****. Your ignorance is on display for all of us.
I like the filibuster rule in the Senate. Why? Because it means that a simple majority isn't good enough to get the most significant legislation passed. Instead, you need a consensus (60 votes or more). If we can't get that consensus, laws shouldn't be changed.
Breaking up the USA is a dumb idea for lots of reasons. One reason is you just can't do it state by state. There are states that contain huge numbers of both liberals and conservatives. If you call one a "blue" state and put it in another country, you haven't solved the problem because a huge segment of that state wasn't "blue".
Why can't we focus more on what we have in common than what we disagree about?
Heard some celebs say they would consider moving to another country, but I never heard talk of tear apart the nation, I only hear that said in serious tones from the right.
Casper
Vermont's secession movement is full of lefties, and some libertarians too.
The biggest problem I have with the map on the first page is two major US metro areas would now have an international boundary through them. One is Chicago (mostly in the "blue" but Indiana in the "red"). The other is Washington, DC (HMM, wasn't this a problem before, like in the Civil War......good thing that Maryland would be in the "blue" willingly this time around ).
Heard some celebs say they would consider moving to another country, but I never heard talk of tear apart the nation, I only hear that said in serious tones from the right.
Casper
Do you mean all those left leaners in 2004 who promised to move to Canada if Bush won were just kidding? Well at least they were near to lying if they weren't kidding. I guess they were just sure their man, Jon Carry, would win.
no secession but there should be a concerted movement back to states rights. the country is too large and too diverse for a strong central union to work. we all benefit from the large free trade ara that is the US and national defense but states shoudl be free to choose vastly different paths on things like education, healthcare, transportation, and social issues if they wish, to do so they need more control over spending (aka lower federal taxes, less subsidization). in fact, it's highway funding that the feds use to blackmail states into raising the drinking age to a ridiculous 21. I think having the feds contorl so much actually make the situation worse because who controls the federal level really matters. the less they co0ntorl our day to day live, the less reason to resent states we don't necessarily agree with.
no secession but there should be a concerted movement back to states rights. the country is too large and too diverse for a strong central union to work. we all benefit from the large free trade ara that is the US and national defense but states shoudl be free to choose vastly different paths on things like education, healthcare, transportation, and social issues if they wish, to do so they need more control over spending (aka lower federal taxes, less subsidization). in fact, it's highway funding that the feds use to blackmail states into raising the drinking age to a ridiculous 21. I think having the feds contorl so much actually make the situation worse because who controls the federal level really matters. the less they co0ntorl our day to day live, the less reason to resent states we don't necessarily agree with.
100000% agree. that way if the laws in one place aren't to your liking you can move to somewhere different. the problem is that the executive has no intention of handing power back to the states without a serious fight
Too bad the poll is closed because I would vote, HELL YES! It's time to break this pig up. The USA no longer succeeds as a country united and neither side will give any quarter. Many of us want the same things but differ to an unresolvable degree how to get there.
The lefties want big government and want cradle to grave care paid for by the filthy rich. The righties want to be left the hell alone by government and figure we can help those who want to be lifted up learn to do it themselves. Those who are truly needy due to physical or mental limitations should be cared for by society via charitable institutions not a Darth Vader like federal government.
We are never going to agree. This forum (and all the others) show how much dislike and distrust there is for the other side and the nation swings back and forth based, typically, on very few votes. It's time to do something different because the USA is broken and may never be fixed again.
I despise the left and all of their ideas on how I or my family should live. I despise their hatred for self-achievement, I despise their stand on lowering standards so that all are dumb, I despise everything about them. And I know them like the back of my hand because when I was young and ignorant, I was one of them. Then, I became an adult and finally realized what a miserable bunch liberals really are.
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