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You're not going to find too many "fully black" people in Latin America (or North America, for that matter). There are some very African people in the Dominican, Cuba, Panama, Colombia and Ecuador, for example, and in some isolated parts of PR such as Loiza Aldea.
I don't know about Ecuador, blacks are a very small minority there.
I don't know about Ecuador, blacks are a very small minority there.
I didn't say how many black folks you'd find in Ecuador - just that they are there.
Actually, 10% isn't that small a minority. Esmeraldas province is largely/mostly black, and so are parts of the Chota Valley up higher in the mountains.
Also, the African people there tend to look quite African. An Ecuadorian friend of mine told me, "You are not dark enough to be one of ours."
I didn't say how many black folks you'd find in Ecuador - just that they are there.
Actually, 10% isn't that small a minority. Esmeraldas province is largely/mostly black, and so are parts of the Chota Valley up higher in the mountains.
Also, the African people there tend to look quite African. An Ecuadorian friend of mine told me, "You are not dark enough to be one of ours."
well, there not 10% according to most sources, most put there number at 3-5% which I believe is more accurate as does my uncle's wife who is from Ecuador.
But yeah they tend to be alot blacker than other afro hispanics.
well, there not 10% according to most sources, most put there number at 3-5% which I believe is more accurate as does my uncle's wife who is from Ecuador.
But yeah they tend to be alot blacker than other afro hispanics.
That whole Pacific strip from Esmeraldas north through Colombia (Tumaco, Buenaventura, Quibdo, etc.) into Darien, Panama has lots of very dark Afro-Latinos.
That whole Pacific strip from Esmeraldas north through Colombia (Tumaco, Buenaventura, Quibdo, etc.) into Darien, Panama has lots of very dark Afro-Latinos.
yep that strip is full of them and then you go inland where mestizos and indians make up the majority, about 90% of Ecuador and about 60% of Colombia.
I think there's a lot of variation. To use a couple of famous people from PR, Jorge Posada and Ricky Martin clearly look "white", though more in an "olivy" sense like an average Greek or Italian that a blond, blue eyed Swede.
On the other hand, Roberto Clemente clearly looked black. And Rita Moreno looked somewhere "in between".
What is this, the 1950's all over again, when racial classifications were all either Black or White, nothing in-between even existed? Or as the stand-up comedian George Lopez says, he's either "white, black, or 'other'"...?!
I'm quoting YOUR OWN article. The later study. Geesh. If I can find the number of folks in the study, I'll add later. But how are you going to argue with the link you provided??
"Conversely, in a study done on Puerto Rican women born on the island but living in NY by Carolina Bonilla, Mark D. Shriver and Esteban Parra in 2004, the ancestry proportions corresponding to the three parental populations were found to be 53.3±2.8% European, 29.1±2.3% West African, and 17.6±2.4% Native American based on autosomal ancestry informative markers.Autosomal markers tests have been shown to draw a larger picturethan that of gender based mtDNA and Y-Chromosome tests. More interesting was to see how much of the population showed any markers of each region. 98% of the people sampled had European ancestry markers, 87% had African ancestry markers, 84% had Native American ancestry markers, 5% showed only African and European markers, 4% showed only Native American and European markers, 2% showed only African markers, and 2% showed only European marker"
And this is all for what, to prove that people are lying about who and what they think they are?! Or claim they are?! I'm about to start a major in Genetic Engineering but I'm not into that field to prove people are LYING about who and what race they claim to be, for God's sake! You're trying to prove people are whatever percent African ancestry to what end - to prove what, that they're lying about being any other race or culture than African?
If someone with dark skin tells you they're not "black" then it's because CULTURALLY they're not. They don't want to be lumped in with a "race" that they're not a part of culturally just because of the level of melanin in their skin. People have dark skin naturally in all cultures around the equatorial regions of the earth and it is just the skin's way of protecting itself from constant direct sunlight.
One reason I'm a science major is to distance myself from the Anthropology and Sociology majors whose entire existence seems to be to prove that I and other dark-skinned Choctaw Indians are "lying" about who we are and are not. To, as my family priest always said, make me be what THEY want to SEE. I will never take a DNA test to shut up some Anthropology nut who's calling me a liar about who I am and am not. Not even those who won't back off (that can't last forever). This is because I really don't personally care about the opinion of some idiot racist who just wants to make me be what they want to see, and go around calling me a liar for whatever purpose...after all I'm not running for public office anytime soon.
And does it ever occur to you people that anyone who WAS culturally "black" would tell you so in a New York minute. And proudly too. Everyone, mostly, is proud of their ACTUAL heritage and upbringing. Nobody wants to be lumped in with a culture they're not just because someone says they share some DNA with the people who do exhibit those cultural...traits.
You as a society put people on the defensive by accusing them of being part of a culture they're not just because of skin pigmentation and maybe hair length or texture. That's what's meant by "Puerto Ricans deny their African heritage." They're not. They're Latino. What DNA factor caused their skin pigmentation to be brown instead of European-Spaniard-White is of no bearing to what they actually live like. Brown skin pigmentation is not automatically "African" culturally. The Indians who were here when Columbus et al, got here were brown-skinned. Skin pigmentation doesn't dictate culture, upbringing, lifestyle, and everything else. It's society's attitudes that dictated that, that everything is based on skin pigmentation. Where you were forced to or allowed to live, what you could and could not do or get, whether you were allowed to have a higher education or not, etc, all of that is dictated by society and THAT is based on skin pigmentation. What you can and can't GET in life may determine how you act and how you live, which leads to the cultural differences that we know and for some reason perpetuate today. But it's not skin pigmentation alone that determines culture!
And this is all for what, to prove that people are lying about who and what they think they are?! Or claim they are?! I'm about to start a major in Genetic Engineering but I'm not into that field to prove people are LYING about who and what race they claim to be, for God's sake! You're trying to prove people are whatever percent African ancestry to what end - to prove what, that they're lying about being any other race or culture than African?
Here is where your argument get shot out of the water before it even begins. You cannot use the premises of genetic engineering to speak about history, culture and anthropology. DNA, while tied in and connected to culture, is ultimately independent from it. It is obvious that throughout North American and Latin American history, the hierarchies than have been set up based on race have placed African at the bottom, below Native and below white European. It would make sense, therefore, that people of African, Native or mixed ancestry would benefit less by being associated with these groups, and more by being associated with white Europeans.
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If someone with dark skin tells you they're not "black" then it's because CULTURALLY they're not.
There is no such thing as black culture. Culture of African origin, culture with an African imprint, sure. But there is no such thing as black culture, as black people all over the world have many different cultures, and as cultures all over the world have imprints from African, and other, people, who have black or dark skin.
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. They don't want to be lumped in with a "race" that they're not a part of culturally just because of the level of melanin in their skin. People have dark skin naturally in all cultures around the equatorial regions of the earth and it is just the skin's way of protecting itself from constant direct sunlight.
Your choice of argument, and the vocabulary I notice (lumped in with a race, etc.), makes my argument for me. Thank you for making it effortless.
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One reason I'm a science major is to distance myself from the Anthropology and Sociology majors whose entire existence seems to be to prove that I and other dark-skinned Choctaw Indians are "lying" about who we are and are not.
Now we're getting somewhere. Now we're seeing your motive, your agenda.
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To, as my family priest always said, make me be what THEY want to SEE. I will never take a DNA test to shut up some Anthropology nut who's calling me a liar about who I am and am not
I bet you won't. You think having African ancestry, however much, or however little, is something to be ashamed of. But you don't mind accepting someone like Brett Favre into the Choctaw fold, because he's rich and appears to be white. Do you really believe you're purely Native American?
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And does it ever occur to you people that anyone who WAS culturally "black" would tell you so in a New York minute. And proudly too. Everyone, mostly, is proud of their ACTUAL heritage and upbringing.
There are millions of people who are not. Considering that African Americans and African Latinos are taught to hate their African background, you might understand why many are indeed not proud of their heritage.
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Nobody wants to be lumped in with a culture they're not just because someone says they share some DNA with the people who do exhibit those cultural...traits.
There's that phrase again.
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You as a society put people on the defensive by accusing them of being part of a culture they're not just because of skin pigmentation and maybe hair length or texture. That's what's meant by "Puerto Ricans deny their African heritage." They're not. They're Latino.
Latinos have many different heritages. African, Native, European, Asian, etc. You can be Latino and acknowledge all or any of these heritages. There are black Latinos. I happen to be one of them. I am proud to be the descendant of Africans.
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What DNA factor caused their skin pigmentation to be brown instead of European-Spaniard-White is of no bearing to what they actually live like. Brown skin pigmentation is not automatically "African" culturally. The Indians who were here when Columbus et al, got here were brown-skinned. Skin pigmentation doesn't dictate culture, upbringing, lifestyle, and everything else. It's society's attitudes that dictated that, that everything is based on skin pigmentation. Where you were forced to or allowed to live, what you could and could not do or get, whether you were allowed to have a higher education or not, etc, all of that is dictated by society and THAT is based on skin pigmentation. What you can and can't GET in life may determine how you act and how you live, which leads to the cultural differences that we know and for some reason perpetuate today. But it's not skin pigmentation alone that determines culture!
Nobody is saying that pigmentation determines culture. I am saying that many cultures try to influence those within the culture to deny certain elements of their heritage. You cannot refute that, because the evidence is overwhelming.
I have puerto ricans in my family and they come in evey shape color possible. There isnt a person who can say a puerto rican looks like... anyone can be puerto rican. I will say that the african gene is very strong as well the native traits. All puerto ricans shere something in common and its long hair. Maybe except my cousin lol He's half african american but it doesnt matter. lol I think it depends on what part of the island a person family comes from. I've notice that some parts of the island produce lighter others darker. There is a euro gene in there too but Id say most are taino indians and african. One has to look at the culture. Most of the dances , down to the hair brading is all african. I think that Puerto Ricans are very unique with they're history. The slave trade, independence, the present. A person must look and say why am i brown?? Even though Im puerto rican why is my hair curley not straight . I know puerto ricans that are light but have curley afros lol Its like a taino with african hair but a little straighter. Only people from africa and middle east have afros besides afro latinos.I my self am half latino and african but idc race doesnt matter to me. I know for a fact that alot of puerto rican dont want to be african but you have african genes. It doesnt make any sience at all. Find a real indian there light and look indian without the Afro. Im a science major too and can tell you that puerto ricans can get sickle cell. Explain that........... Accept it. Be proud of who you are . Spanish is not even from the taino culture to be correct. Most latino dont talk about that. Spanish is not your culture at all. Yes slave were in latin american. Yes they did mix. OMG. IM sure if you go to puerto rico there are plenty of people darker than me and im light brown . Still doesnt add up right ?????
Last edited by bobbygreen; 11-26-2011 at 07:16 PM..
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