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Old 10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
 
23,843 posts, read 11,840,911 times
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Another example of regulation that killed an industry. Our merchant marine. After WW2, we had the largest merchant marine fleet.

Now all of your goods are moved by ships flagged under flags of convenience.

The US over regulated and priced itself out of the market. Another reason was unions.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,961,738 times
Reputation: 1945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Cell phones are dirt cheap? Really? Isn't the iPhone about $300? Weren't they $600 to start with. That is NOT cheap!

I pay Verizon $65 a month for service and two phones. I use my cell phone about 65 minutes a month, that's $1.00 per minute. Cheap? Are you kidding me? I have a calling card that's 5-cents a minute. Now, that's cheap. I've a land line that is $45 month, with NO limit on minutes, I can talk hour after hour and it's dirt cheap. Why is the land line cheaper? They've a semi monopoly here, only one firm in town, Qwest. Only ONE set of infrastructure to build and maintain, only ONE set of overhead costs, only ONE set of profit numbers. Meanwhile, there's a dozen cell phone providers here, with TWELVE sets of infrastructure, TWELVE sets of overhead costs, TWELVE sets of profit numbers to make...and on and on, TWELVE times EVERYTHING. That's why cell phones are so expensive, we're paying TWELVE times for all the parts that make it go, and that gets VERY expensive.

Pay NO attention to the yapping mouths of cell phone companies about free minutes, it's all a game to suck you in. Pay phones have all but disappeared now as they want you to have one of these expensive gizmo's they're pushing. I love having the cell phone when I'm out of the house, but the cost is a LOT higher than it should be.

Best phone service we ever had in the country was when Ma Bell was all we had, prices were fair and the telephone equipment made by Western Electric NEVER broke. Now, we need an entire issue of Consumers Report to figger out who provides what, at what prices, quality of coverage, and WE are the ones paying for all that duplication. Once they "de-regulated" AT&T, it became nearly impossible to read your phone bill.

Ask ANY professor of economics who is the most efficient provider and they will tell you that a 'regulated monopoly' is the most efficient. Only ONE set of infrastructure, overhead, and profit to cover. I can assure you that you have only ONE water utility in your city. Can you imagine the horror if you had TWELVE companies, all digging up the streets to put in TWELVE sets of water pipes, can you imagine the cost of water, to YOU, in that ludicrous environment? That's the current issue with phone service.

Except for a few ideologues, those same economics professors will tell you that other types of regulation are useful for many types of businesses and industries. Primarily, the point of having a minimal regulatory scheme is to prevent abuses that always show up when totally unfettered economic competition get out of hand, i.e., fare wars in airlines that cause them to end up bankrupt, which means that NONE of us get to fly and the PUBLIC interest is NOT being served.

Further down the regulatory feeding chain are building codes, so that you KNOW what you're getting when you buy a house. If we throw OUT all the electrical, plumbing and other construction standards, corners will be cut and you'll get a rather sub-standard, and UNSAFE dwelling unit or high rise office building. In this case, the "standards" are a form of regulation that have notable benefit to us all.

Total deregulation or total lack of standards is a huge hazard to us, whether in Banking, Investment, Medical, Construction, Transport and many other areas. Even in my hobby of model railroading, we had conformance standards to assure that when we buy a model item that it will run smoothly on the model railroads in our basements.

IMO, anything that gets totally de-regulated leads to a disaster. If existing regulations are too onerous, they can be adjusted, but we've seen several cases of de-regulation and they've all turned out terrible.

So what your saying is you want the best cellphone and ignore the rest of the options and of course in a FREE MARKET the IPHONE will be expensive.
This is not the point freaking 10 year olds have cell phones means they are pretty cheap for the service and services. Thou you DONT HAVE TO HAVE A EXPENSIVE CELL PHONE AND OR EVEN SERVICE!!! YOU CHOOSE THAT!

This concept of not having regulation will some how make everyone go crazy and cut corners is not true. You mentioned building homes well even with regulations and city code inspections we have home inspections which PROTECTS THE BUYER! Of course having local government set some regulation and or building codes is really not a problem. It in many ways depends on where the regulation is and where it's coming from. Like I dont think we need the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT setting the building codes.

This includes food and what we put into our bodies.
Get the government out of that business and let the comsumer run the market. Let third party consumer groups review products, not speical interests in washington lobbying for drug and food approvals.

The issue people just dont trust anything unless it has the uncle sam approval stamp.

Like somehow they are better to decide what is best for you and all of us.
They do such a great job right?
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,146 posts, read 33,571,533 times
Reputation: 14138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
It seems like every time an industry is deregulated chaos starts.

Energy and Utilities are deregulated and prices go way up and Enron creates an energy crisis in CA.

Airlines are deregulated and we have an industry that treats its customers like dirt and loses billions.

The Financial Services Industry is deregulated and we have a trillion dollar bailout.

Where has deregulation actually helped?


Your looking at deregulation thinking whole, when in fact, it is pieced together work in progress. They never totally deregulate that just remove parts. Those parts are there because some other part of regulation caused a problem. Remove them and the problem appears.

They never remove the regulation that cause that problem, they remove a fix to a bad policy in the first place.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,175,664 times
Reputation: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso View Post
Deregulation in theory should work and work well but in reality it does not.

Deregulation depends on ethical ,honest people in order for it to work. However corporate CEOs , Wall street brass have no concept of that.

They disdain those qualities and this is main reason of many why deregulation does not work .
Deregulation is the theory that human beings when left to their own devices and to be policed by their own vices (greed) will somehow do the right thing. I don't believe in death by 10,000 regulations but I do believe that sometimes we need to keep locks on the door to keep honest people honest. Common sense labor regulations, environmental regulations, and financial regulations aren't "marxist" and they're not going to destroy America. I believe people are generally good but at the same time I sleep better at night knowing there's a police force patrolling the streets.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:44 AM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,452,386 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
Deregulation is the theory that human beings when left to their own devices and to be policed by their own vices (greed) will somehow do the right thing. I don't believe in death by 10,000 regulations but I do believe that sometimes we need to keep locks on the door to keep honest people honest. Common sense labor regulations, environmental regulations, and financial regulations aren't "marxist" and they're not going to destroy America. I believe people are generally good but at the same time I sleep better at night knowing there's a police force patrolling the streets.
Who decides what is "the right thing."?
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:45 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,340,394 times
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If no one among us can govern ourselves, then who among us has the ability to govern millions of other people?

It's called Tinkeritus and it is the very mind, body and soul of a liberal.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:50 AM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,875,321 times
Reputation: 3189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
It seems like every time an industry is deregulated chaos starts.

Energy and Utilities are deregulated and prices go way up and Enron creates an energy crisis in CA.

Airlines are deregulated and we have an industry that treats its customers like dirt and loses billions.

The Financial Services Industry is deregulated and we have a trillion dollar bailout.

Where has deregulation actually helped?
The repeal of Prohibition comes to mind...
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,802 posts, read 5,444,785 times
Reputation: 3113
To suggest that a lack of regulation has been detrimental to the airlines is indefensibly asinine; overregulation by the FAA in choosing routes, setting fares, and too many other monopolistic things to mention meant that only wealthy folks could fly.

Deregulating the airlines allowed new airlines such as Southwest to start in 1971 and thrive from day one with their unique point-to-point route structure, best in the industry on-time percentage and customer service, and rock bottom airfares.

That resulted in an explosion of service to many other cities that the majors ignored and/or underserved, even when typically stupid Democrats such as ex-Fort Worth Congressman Jim Wright's 'Wright Amendment' blatantly favored American Airlines over Southwest insofar as air service in the greater DFW area, as well as nationwide, are concerned.

Thanks to him, airfares in and out of DFW are the highest of any of our five business airports, and Southwest spends hundreds of millions of dollars more on jet fuel thanks to this extremely shortsighted rule introduced by blockheads such as Mr. Wright

Overregulation has unquestionably driven millions of jobs overseas; when the co-founder of Home Depot recently stated that he would never have been able to launch what has been a spectacular successeful and extremely competitive and beneficial business today if he were just starting out is a withering indictment of Congress, and especially the Democrats, proud endorsers and sponsors of the top three job-killing and profit-killing entities on the planet--environmentalists, trial lawyers, and unions.

When the CEO of the nation's 14th largest oil company, Harold Hamm of Continental Resources, stated that 'America could be energy independent by the end of the decade if the government would get out of the way' in the WSJ recently, he merely stated what many of us have known for twenty-plus years.

Finally, the stat of the year, courtesy of CBS's Scott Pelley & the WSJ.

Net jobs created---Sept. 2011---58,000

Net jobs created---Sept. 1982---1,100,000

Disturbingly, the Job-Killer-In-Chief is still at it!!!!!
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,175,664 times
Reputation: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
Who decides what is "the right thing."?
How does anyone decide what is the "right thing" in any aspect of life? Your question is far too philosophical for a thread on Wall St. Like I said I believe people to be generally good but we still have laws and we still have a police force. How do they decide what's the "right thing?"

When I determine if something is the right thing the first I do is ponder what the consequences would be to other people. I would say that lobbying for deregulation so I can partake in complicated, ridiculously risky gambles with millions of other people's money is not the right thing. Did everyone on Wall St do that? No, just like not everyone steals money. But no one except the fringe element is in favor of eliminating the police force and abolishing our laws. Sometimes we need a few regulations in place to keep the honest people honest because sometimes people left to police themselves will do the wrong thing.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,425 posts, read 8,749,270 times
Reputation: 7731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
It seems like every time an industry is deregulated chaos starts.

Energy and Utilities are deregulated and prices go way up and Enron creates an energy crisis in CA.

Airlines are deregulated and we have an industry that treats its customers like dirt and loses billions.

The Financial Services Industry is deregulated and we have a trillion dollar bailout.

Where has deregulation actually helped?
You wana pay $1,000 bucks to go from NY to Chicago...re-regulate the airlines. Energy prices a skyrocketing because of superfluous EPA regulations and Obama's kill coal policy. The morons in Congress eliminated the GlassSteagall Act of 1932...one of the reasons (along with Frank/Dodd legislation) that has caused bank poo poo.

Last edited by Pretzelogik; 10-10-2011 at 10:30 AM..
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