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Sorry, it makes not sense to me. None. I find it disturbing that he would even propose giving $100K to troubled homeowners. There have been "How much house can I afford" calculators on the internet for at least 12 years. I used the "wayback" archive and found one on my bank's site in 1996! Anybody who claims that they did not know how much home they could afford is too stupid to own a home, let alone vote if you ask me.
Sorry to disagree. Moore is a joke of a human. I bet he is worth a few million. Maybe he can start the fund with a few million of his own. Oh wait, he is a Democrat. That means the rules don't apply to him.
Sorry, it makes not sense to me. None. I find it disturbing that he would even propose giving $100K to troubled homeowners. There have been "How much house can I afford" calculators on the internet for at least 12 years. I used the "wayback" archive and found one on my bank's site in 1996! Anybody who claims that they did not know how much home they could afford is too stupid to own a home, let alone vote if you ask me.
Sorry to disagree. Moore is a joke of a human. I bet he is worth a few million. Maybe he can start the fund with a few million of his own. Oh wait, he is a Democrat. That means the rules don't apply to him.
You might not agree with that.. but the rest of it is damned good!!
100K to homeowners is much better than 700billion to Wall Street.. if something has to be done!
ANd.. btw.. It woulnd't matter for me.. mine is already over and done with.. so Im' not speaking as someone that benefits from it.
Dont' be a hating because he calls people out on their ****e!!! Good for him..
Last edited by TristansMommy; 10-01-2008 at 07:18 PM..
A better approach is not to do a huge giveaway to reward thieves at all. Why not have a big program to rewrite those stupid mortgages to fixed amortizations of 40-50 yrs to get the payments to where those folks could afford the payments? That way those irresponsible and greedy people who bought too big a house and took out mortgages they couldn't afford could stay in the house with a reasonable mortgage. The banks wouldn't lose the money, just slow down the repayment a bit, which would serve them right for letting out a stupid loan anyway.
I'd like a free $100k too. Why shouldn't I get it too - I was responsible and paid off my mortgage but my house is now worth more than $100k less than it was a year ago. Why should I be punished and irresponsible people rewarded?
The liar loans and people who never could afford the mortgage deserve to lose everything. They most certainly should not be rescued.
What needs to happen is to reinstitute the banking regulations. It is incredibly stupid ot think that people and institutions will not rob and steal when there are no limts to scams and no punishment for them.
A better approach is not to do a huge giveaway to reward thieves at all. Why not have a big program to rewrite those stupid mortgages to fixed amortizations of 40-50 yrs to get the payments to where those folks could afford the payments? That way those irresponsible and greedy people who bought too big a house and took out mortgages they couldn't afford could stay in the house with a reasonable mortgage. The banks wouldn't lose the money, just slow down the repayment a bit, which would serve them right for letting out a stupid loan anyway.
I'd like a free $100k too. Why shouldn't I get it too - I was responsible and paid off my mortgage but my house is now worth more than $100k less than it was a year ago. Why should I be punished and irresponsible people rewarded?
The liar loans and people who never could afford the mortgage deserve to lose everything. They most certainly should not be rescued.
What needs to happen is to reinstitute the banking regulations. It is incredibly stupid ot think that people and institutions will not rob and steal when there are no limts to scams and no punishment for them.
OUt of that entire thing you take away those two paragraphs? Really.. because if you don't agree with that part... fine.. but the rest of it is awesome!!
Because currently only ~10% of all 30 year mortgages ever go full term. The average mortgage term is 7 years. Lower income families move 1.5 times as often as higher income families. How many of these families are going to stay in a house for 40 years? The increase term will reduce the rate at which they build equity. The problem they have now is they are upside down. This is a nice idea, but not realistic in my opinion.
OUt of that entire thing you take away those two paragraphs? Really.. because if you don't agree with that part... fine.. but the rest of it is awesome!!
Far right wing nuts believe in their holy Republican leaders to the point that they will ignore the cost of a 5 trillion dollar war, factor out the 4 dollar gas, and happily hand over their money to blatant Wall St criminals rather than admit that Bill O'Reilly's words are not gospel and the nations woes are not fully and entirely the fault of welfare mothers.
Liberals got to come to terms with the fact the Dems are doing us now just like they also supported BushCo's war.
If everybody would wake up from the faux - partisan distraction, you would see Mike is right. It's not libs vs Cons, it's not R vs L. It's a criminal syndicate in control of our gov't all of whom are our enemy - Gov't & Big money vs the people.
I think anyone who can't see that yet is either propagandized into oblivion or one of them.
I'll take a stab. I think Michael Moore is a socialist headcase and have for many years. But I tried to read over this objectively. Here are my thoughts.
1. APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO CRIMINALLY INDICT ANYONE ON WALL STREET WHO KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COLLAPSE. -- this is a nice idea, but in practice I think it would be impossible to execute; too many levels, too many shades of grey, too many different layers of culpability and accountability
2. THE RICH MUST PAY FOR THEIR OWN BAILOUT. -- this part shows, I think, that Mr. Moore doesn't understand the particular problems being faced now and doesn't understand the bill going before the House on Friday a) 10% ad-hoc tax -- I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with getting credit flowing again b) .25% tax on stock trades -- $25 per $10,000 traded on both the buy and the sale, in other words; currently, $42 per $10,000 is charged as an exchange fee on every round trip, or the equivalent of a .21% fee on all stock trades; so Moore's idea would more than double the total fees (aside from brokerage fees and of course capital gains taxes of course) paid, but it would certainly be a progressive tax; I'm not sure what, if any, chilling effect on trade this would have or how accurate Moore's estimate is c) cut/tax annual dividends by one fourth -- I don't think this would work, at least for listed equity dividends (for those securities that even pay them in the first place!); dividend payments on common stock shares are generally decided upon by the board of directors -- I just see a great potential for a conflict of interests here and an administrative nightmare; for pass-through entities such as mutual funds the problems would be different but maybe no less complicated; also, what's to stop a shareholder from selling just prior to ex-dividend date to avoid the drop in value since there's no benefit to holding? securities that pay no dividends would become more valuable... d) vastly increase corporate tax rates -- this is a clumsy blunt force idea that we can ill afford at this particular point in time; also, I would dearly love it if Moore had footnoted this particular passage with his reference material
3. BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. -- this is insane, insulting, and embarrassing for Moore, that is all
4. IF YOUR BANK OR COMPANY GETS ANY OF OUR MONEY IN A "BAILOUT," THEN WE OWN YOU. -- more lack of understanding of what the bill is about, but in a way, this is going to happen anyway; the Federal Government will own these investment derivatives and is free to profit from them (but don't hold your breath); however, I suspect Moore would really like to see socialization of large swaths of the financial industry, because, you know, government is so benevolent and efficient and would never screw up
5. ALL REGULATIONS MUST BE RESTORED. THE REAGAN REVOLUTION IS DEAD. -- first, 1999 did not "remove all the regulations that governed Wall Street and our banking system;" but I would definitely favor well-written and implemented reregulation; unfortunately, whatever we get is likely to resemble Sarbanes-Oxley, which has been a regulatory money pit and another drag on the economy
6. IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT'S TOO BIG TO EXIST. -- Moore has a great point on this one and though I do not like his strident and metaphor-laden writing style, he actually shows good sense here
7. NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. -- I'm not sure about legislating to an arbitrary multiplier limit, but I would agree with this in principle; I'm not sure how the accounting would be done, when I think of the 45,000 or so employees in dozens of different countries and in hundreds of different professions and lines of business who make up the company I work for
8. STRENGTHEN THE FDIC AND MAKE IT A MODEL FOR PROTECTING NOT ONLY PEOPLE'S SAVINGS, BUT ALSO THEIR PENSIONS AND THEIR HOMES. -- defined benefit plans are going away -- a lot of them that still exist will be rolled into a 401(k) or similar defined contribution plan; the idea of protecting pension money sounds good, but I have no idea if it's feasible; I disagree that retirement investing should avoid the stock market -- I think undiversified investment in individual securities in a 401(k) is a bad idea, but I think the responsibility for retirement savings should lie with the individual, and holding a well-diversified portfolio in the stock market has proven to be a winning way to realize solid returns over time for those who begin investing early in life; responsibility again lies with the individual for making choices later in life to move toward less risk (fixed income, for example); on the FDIC, I believe the $250K limit in the bill is temporary, but I do think it's natural the limit should move upward (it's been $100K for a long time); Moore doesn't extrapolate on "protecting people's homes" so I won't either
9. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH, CALM DOWN, AND NOT LET FEAR RULE THE DAY. -- can't disagree with anything here! I would mention that we need to understand the gravity of the credit situation but not make kneejerk proclamations of doom and Depression
10. CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A "PEOPLE'S BANK." -- well, this one is cute; hmm, low-interest loans for all sorts of people, eh? oh, and healthcare for everyone, that sounds like a winner and it won't cost too much either; this one is just a from Moore to his fans so I won't really comment
All in all, not a very strong plan or one that has much basis in reality or one that shows much understanding of the current situation or the way the economy works, but I don't disagree with every point.
Last edited by Nepenthe; 10-01-2008 at 11:24 PM..
Reason: typo
Sorry, it makes not sense to me. None. I find it disturbing that he would even propose giving $100K to troubled homeowners. There have been "How much house can I afford" calculators on the internet for at least 12 years. I used the "wayback" archive and found one on my bank's site in 1996! Anybody who claims that they did not know how much home they could afford is too stupid to own a home, let alone vote if you ask me.
Sorry to disagree. Moore is a joke of a human. I bet he is worth a few million. Maybe he can start the fund with a few million of his own. Oh wait, he is a Democrat. That means the rules don't apply to him.
You are right, that particular point in Moore's proposal is not a good one. But you said "It" makes no sense, None, and then all you did was pick out one point out of ten, and then bash the only person in the past 8 years to articulately and systematically criticize the bankrupt administation of the worst elected leader in the history of the world.
Why do you so steadfastly and consistently refuse to explain why a peson is a "joke of a human"? At least address the points he makes and explain why you think they are wrong. I agreed with you that this point was wrong, but you don't have the time or the interest of the integrity to say why you think it is wrong. Anybody can call a peson a "joke", but it takes a little more to read what the joke says and try to see if you can think of any reasons why you think he is wrong.
If you disagree with the entire Moore proposal, please pick out at leat 3 or 4 of his points and explain why you think they are wrong. What would you think if you went to Moores website, and they only opinion he expressed was "NewMexicanRepublican is a joke of a human" and then insulted his readers by not bothering to elaborate?
By the way, I know Michael Moore (I also know Rush Limbaugh), my step daughter was dating the executive producer of Fahrenheit 9/11 when it was in production. Moore might very well be worth a million or so, you don't produce Oscar-winning films without earning some of the box office share along the way. But he is not worth many million, and he lives a pretty spartan lifestlye. Most of his earnings are invested in his enterprises, which are at least dedicated to trying to improve the understanding of Americans. After all, just about every car dealer and dentist in his home town is also worth a few million---that is not really a lot of money.
Last edited by jtur88; 10-01-2008 at 11:54 PM..
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from Moore to his fans so I won't really comment
