Pro-Choice vs. Anti-Abortion (accuse, economy, retirement, government)

[ontheroad]

I am a strong advocate for comprehensive sex education but with the anti-bias of the government, education decreased rather than increased in the last 4-6 years.

Condoms are not permitted near or in most schools.

Talking about sex has become dangerous for some teachers in certain districts--even in the most progressive urban and/or suburban areas.

Funding has been steered away from comprehensive education and into abstinence only programming.

On and on--and then we wonder why we have young adolescents lost without a compass.

We can thank our Administration for a portion of these changes, but too many parents have really not supported cse! - to a large extent believing it encourages early sexuality or because their belief system interferes with their judgment.

Originally Posted by madicarus2000

Ok, I'll jump into the fray a little, I'm pro-choice, but I also believe if we had a better and more comprehensive sex education for the youth, there wouldn't be as many abortions. It wont eliminate it, but in my opinion it will certainly reduce the number of abortions performed as it wouldnt be post-intercourse-birth control.

[madicarus2000]

I dont hear a lot from the type of people who say they decided to take a chance with sex and if they got pregnant then they can have an abortion. But I've heard many of the "well I didnt think.." type of statements. Which I think is a clear sign that education is lacking. I have a daughter, I hope when the time comes she makes the "right" choice, but all I can hope for is that she makes an informed decision and takes all the necessary precautions. That is through education and not saying "repeat after me..dont do it"

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by madicarus2000

I dont hear a lot from the type of people who say they decided to take a chance with sex and if they got pregnant then they can have an abortion. But I've heard many of the "well I didnt think.." type of statements. Which I think is a clear sign that education is lacking. I have a daughter, I hope when the time comes she makes the "right" choice, but all I can hope for is that she makes an informed decision and takes all the necessary precautions. That is through education and not saying "repeat after me..dont do it"

Yes, I agree... I'm not a parent yet, but I have taught for many years, and education is KEY. If we don't keep them well-informed, kids will just figure things out for themselves - and we all know how dangerous that can be! I've heard some crazy things from students, and try my best to remain neutral but helpful when these subjects come up. I had one tutoring student who attended a Catholic school, and showed me this "information packet" they gave her on abortion... it was scary how much bad info. this packet had, and I really had to bite my tongue while reading it. As her tutor, it wasn't my place to argue with any of it, but I did offer some reading material that was more neutral and medically-based.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by MoMark

I don't buy that line or reason for an instant gizmo!!! The issue of the value of a human life is not sex-dependent.

I'm not saying that men can't understand emotionally, but the fact remains that women bear the child - and therefore much of the "burden". It's a heck of a lot easier for a man to walk away, when faced with an unexpected pregnancy... the woman has no choice in the matter, and MUST either carry the child or make the difficult decision of abortion. Not to mention, if they have the baby, they're then faced with the decision of adoption vs. raising it. We also have to deal with the pregnancy/birth itself, which as I mentioned earlier, is a bigger deal than you might realize.

There's a reason why 84% of single parents are mothers (according to the census bureau), as the decisions are ultimately ours to make. I don't think all men are irresponsible or uncaring, and wish I could offer you 100% equality on these issues... but until men find a way to get pregnant, we will never be facing the same exact situations here.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by hereinfla

I agree with you Gizmo. I've seen it so many times. Sometimes with those especially close to their parents because they don't want to let them down.

I think I am going to leave this thread as I don't want to rehash the same arguments that have been going around for decades with men who will never know and could not imagine being in the situation.

Kinda like a straight person telling a gay person that being homosexual is a choice

LOL... yeah, I said I'd stay out of it too. It's hard to keep quiet on these issues, since we all have such passionate views. I don't expect to change anyone's opinions, since I know they won't change mine, but it's good to occasionally express them!

[UB50]

Originally Posted by YapCity

The thing that really kills me about this ultra right wing view is that the same group despises public assistance. Well if an impoverished woman finds herself pregnant, I guess she is supposed to not only find a job or two making a living wage, but also have enough left over to pay the daycare she needs to work?

This has always been one of my biggest problems with the "Right-wingers View on Abortion." They think everyone should have a bunch of babies but then they don't want to do a darn thing to make sure the babies are raised well. They just want to make sure you have the baby but the rest of it is your problem!

I had a Congressman for many years who was so Right Wing he actually voted against the WIC program. He voted against some program to provide milk to preschoolers.

If you are going to support the "Abortion should be illegal, abortion is murder" view, then you need to support taking care of all the babies you are going to have!! Is it any less "murder" if you let a baby starve to death?

I just don't get it.

By the way, I'm pro-choice AND for the death penalty so I think I am very consistant!

[UB50]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

But as any woman knows, going through pregnancy is a HUGE deal, and one that can have lifelong effects... especially for a 14-15 year old, who will be forever changed after being pregnant & giving birth. Not to mention, unless it's a healthy white baby, it could end up in foster care for most/all of it's childhood. I'm not saying these are factors that would convince ME, since I personally would choose not to terminate... but these are the reasons I support other women's right to choose. I know men hate to hear it, but only a woman can truly understand some of this.

This is a HUGE deal for women! I don't think men really understand that. I'd love for science to advance to the point where men could carry a baby for 9 months. At that point, I think they should have a say in abortion/no abortion -- but until they can do this, most of their views have almost no merit. (I didn't say it earlier, but I believe abortions in the first trimester should be totally up to the woman involved. Period.)

Adoption is a wonderful thing but why don't more couples adopt black babies? I realize Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and Madonna are making it more acceptable to adopt outside of your race -- but why didn't people do this before? Does everyone need a celebrity to show you the way? If you are a single person with a nice life, why aren't you adopting a baby? (I'm not directing this at you, Gizmo!) Single people can adopt too! If you are really against abortion, I think you SHOULD be adopting a child. It's the kindest, "most true" thing you could possibly do.

[UB50]

I'm really curious...

How many people here are against abortion but have adopted or fostered children? How many have adopted or fostered children of another race?

Should I start a new topic?

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by UB50

This is a HUGE deal for women! I don't think men really understand that. I'd love for science to advance to the point where men could carry a baby for 9 months. At that point, I think they should have a say in abortion/no abortion -- but until they can do this, most of their views have almost no merit. (I didn't say it earlier, but I believe abortions in the first trimester should be totally up to the woman involved. Period.)

I love how some people make it sound so easy, to go through a full-term pregnancy and birth... and then they think it's easy to hand that child over for adoption, which I'm sure it isn't. Whether or not they like to hear this, men will never understand what it means to carry a child - just as we'll never know what it's like to write our name in snow.

Adoption is a wonderful thing but why don't more couples adopt black babies? I realize Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and Madonna are making it more acceptable to adopt outside of your race -- but why didn't people do this before? Does everyone need a celebrity to show you the way? If you are a single person with a nice life, why aren't you adopting a baby? (I'm not directing this at you, Gizmo!) Single people can adopt too! If you are really against abortion, I think you SHOULD be adopting a child. It's the kindest, "most true" thing you could possibly do.

I agree, it's sad more people don't adopt the "unadoptable". I've always said that if I reach a certain age (which keeps changing as I get older, lol) without being married/partnered, that I'll adopt a child... I'd love to be a mother, but feel adoption is a less selfish choice for a single woman. And I would absolutely adopt one of a different race, or any child who was having trouble finding a home. They have waiting-lists of 3+ years for a healthy white infant, which is just wrong in my opinion. I can understand wanting a baby who resembles you, but I wish more would consider looking beyond that.

[UB50]

Gizmo,

I know of a single black woman who had a dream of having foster children. She thought it would be really neat, that she could teach them to play the piano, etc. She took an early retirement and bought a house with the idea of getting foster children to live with her.

She got the house, then she got three foster children.

She told me that the foster children were a wreck. Every foster child had huge psychological problems and she just couldn't deal with it. One of them smeared ***** on her dining room walls. Even though she had purchased the piano and was dying to teach one of them to play it -- she never got the chance. She eventually sent them all back to social services.

This woman was an entreprenuer and a person who "just didn't take no for an answer" and the foster child experience totally did her in.