The Politics of Having Kids (deaths, high school, economy, abuse)

[prim2007]

Originally Posted by silas777

I am all for big families and have many friends with 3,4 or more kids, but, I support 100%, any one with leftist politic's decision not to have kids!

Why is the decision not to have kids a leftist political decision? How about a responsible decision if you can't afford one? If someone can't have children, do you assume they are "leftist" or do they need to explain their medical conditions to you? How about if you're not married and have not found a partner in the "usual" time frame, unless you think people should get into a loveless marriage (a la our divorce rate) just to meet "your standard"? What about people who are insightful enough to know that they will not make good parents? What do you say to people who are really only having kids to look "normal", get a tax break, or have people to raise them when they're old? Despite your inane belief (You're a real jerk!), not everyone that has kids is doing so for altruistic reasons and certainly many don't plan well financially for them. I have no issues whether you have kids or not, I do take issues with tax breaks or any other "benefits/rewards" for making choices to have kids or "penalties" for not making the decision to marry and/or have kids.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by prim2007

Despite your inane belief (You're a real jerk!),.

OUCH! That hurts! Now listen up, You're confused, not having kids does not make you a leftist. However it is definately a leftist ideology that believes in over population and the idea that the fewer children people have, the better. I am simply pointing out that I am 100% in support of those people not raising children of their own! Having said that, I also am not in favor of our tax dollars supporting women whom cannot seem to keep from having children when they cannot support them themselves! Thank You for you're kind words!

[prim2007]

Originally Posted by silas777

OUCH! That hurts! Now listen up, You're confused, not haivg kids does not make you a leftist. However it is definately a leftist ideology that believes in over population and the idea that the fewer children people have, the better. I am simply pointing out that I am 100% in support of those people not raising children of their own! Having said that, I also am not in favor of our tax dollars supporting women whom cannot seem to keep from having children when they cannot support them themselves! Thank You for you're kind words!

I'll repeat your asinine, insensitive comment because there is no way to misinterpret what you stated. It sounds like you're just trying to back peddle.

Originally Posted by silas777

I am all for big families and have many friends with 3,4 or more kids, but, I support 100%, any one with leftist politic's decision not to have kids!

In other words, not to have kids is solely a leftist political decision. Besides a bad speller, you're about as big an A** as I've seen on this board by maligning the thousands that don't have kids for a number of reasons including highly personal and emotional ones. I hope these words come back on you and your family down through the 10th generation! I assume you're in your 50's or older if you believe "overpopulation" is the reason most are not having kids. That's back there with burning bras.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by GloryB

I'm not sure there are any statistics proving that the women who didn't want children, but ended up getting pregnant, abuse their children. It could just as well be the other way around. People who abuse their children have some sort of mental illness or a drug/alcohol related dependency or some other factor which causes them to injure a child they may very well love. I agree that they shouldn't have children, but they seem to want children until the responsibility overwhelms them and they become a nightmare as a parent.

I don't believe that the first statement you made was addressed anywhere. I don't know where you got it. The issues you’re bringing up had nothing to do with the OP.

There are no statistics that state that parents who abuse their kids have mental illnesses or have drug/alcohol dependence.

Originally Posted by GloryB

I don't think anyone who doesn't want children is forced to have them. There are plenty of short term and long term remedies for a female to keep from getting pregnant. If a female doesn't want children she should discuss this before marriage with her spouse. As for social pressure, she can either be honest and say she doesn't want children, or simply say she can't get pregnant.

I'm not sure I consider it a political issue....but it is a big social issue.

I know a lot of women who get family pressure to have kids. Ever hear of a woman say to her daughter, when are you going to make me a grandma?
With the political focus on having children in our society, it is a big political problem.
Some examples are:
- the fear mongering that social security is going to go belly up unless you procreate to increase future "taxation."
- churches push it quite a bit, catholics, mormons, islam.
- cultures push it: US (pretty much the only industrialized nation that still does).

How often did I hear, it's different when it's your own; wait until you have them; you're not complete as a woman until you have a child. I’ve also been told that I’m “broken” because I chose to not have children.

We need to provide our children comprehensive health education to include their bodies, functions, pregnancy and birth control.

Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08

One of my biggest gripes is the child tax credit. I would prefer it be capped at two children.
I don't think day care should be subsidized by the government.
Women who are on welfare should be penalized should they have more kids once they are enrolled in the program.
Birth control, IUDs, condoms, etc should be made more accessible to women.

I don’t believe that children should be subsidized by the state except for education. The parents need to be responsible for their actions of bringing a child into the world.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by silas777

I am all for big families and have many friends with 3,4 or more kids, but, I support 100%, any one with leftist politic's decision not to have kids!

Maybe the leftists can see what the rightists are going to do to their kids:

Deny them any public help if they fall on hard times
Send them around the world to be killed by patriots defending their own country,
Make them pay the bill for the Bush escapades plus intrest
Abolish, one by one, their constitutional rights
Spy on them 24/7 and implant ID/GPS chips
Put them in police-state FEMA concentration camps

[eastcoastlady]

I think there should be extra incentives to adopt rather than have children. I'm 30 years old and 99.9% sure I don't want to have kids, but if I did I would adopt. Why bring another life to a world where so many children need caring parents already?
I look at all the people around me with children and I am soooo glad I'm not one of them.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by prim2007

I'll repeat your asinine, insensitive comment because there is no way to misinterpret what you stated. It sounds like you're just trying to back peddle.



In other words, not to have kids is solely a leftist political decision. Besides a bad speller, you're about as big an A** as I've seen on this board by maligning the thousands that don't have kids for a number of reasons including highly personal and emotional ones. I hope these words come back on you and your family down through the 10th generation! I assume you're in your 50's or older if you believe "overpopulation" is the reason most are not having kids. That's back there with burning bras.

Well obviously you are a very angry person with some serious issues, I am sorry for that, for someone whom is so critical of others and their spelling , you have a hard time comprehending! For all the names you call me, I have never wished harm to anyones family on this board, no matter how dilluted they were! The aging hippie whom started this thread I believe is on record, with the belief as I stated. Obviously lots of people dont have kids for lots of reasons, any rational person could see they werent whom I was talking about. Any one not having kids for "political" reasons, such as the world already has too many kids or they are bad for the environment,"Leftist ideas", I support 100%!! No backpeddling here! Burning Bras?

[Wisteria]

Interesting topic and not something that can easily be covered on a forum.
Some really good posts and ideas here, too!

Originally Posted by silas777
I am all for big families and have many friends with 3,4 or more kids, but, I support 100%, any one with leftist politic's decision not to have kids!

Geez, I know people from all ideologies, and there are extremists in every party. I know people who are very conservative, to those who are too far out for me, and believe hugging every tree is mandatory! It's a personal decision, and I'm sure there are adults in every persuasion who choose not to have children.

ViewfromthePeak: Women are not forced into having children. I knew a wonderful woman, well educated, nice, and giving. She didn't want children, so we had to break up. As nice as she is, her dating options are much more limited. Not to say she can't find a nice guy to be with, just that many otherwise compatible mates are filtered out. Of course I'll be disproved by several childless women who had no problems finding a man, but you know that I'm correct on an aggregate scale.

If this is considered forcing women to have kids, that's pretty weak.

ViewfromthePeak's post is the most interesting to me because I used to be one of those women! I remember dating quite a few men who wanted to have children -- and brought it up early on in dating -- and I didn't want any at the time. I remember one guy, an attorney, with whom I really got a long well, mentioning having children. At the time, I was adamant that I did not want any -- I had helped raise my much younger sisters, and I wasn't in a space to think about all that responsibility. So, he broke up with me -- based on not wanting children.

Fast forward fifteen years, and I gave birth to my daughter, who is now in college! I changed my mind. As I got older, and wiser, and more mature, I settled and was finally ready to have a child. I realized that I was committing about twenty years of my life (more, I know, if you count adulthood), to raising her. It was the best decision I ever made! Even though I am divorced, and I raised her alone, I would never trade her, nor want to go back to a life without her! How one can change!!

Of course, there are those who get pregnant, and wanting or not wanting a child, isn't their first priority -- it is just what it is. I don't think we can sterilize women -- especially ahead of time -- if we don't know what kind of mother she would be. And for abused children, I do agree that more social workers need to be employed and for higher pay, however, I do not think that is a governmental priority, because we need way too many workers to cover the amount of abuse that occurs.

Fortunately, most parents love their children -- it is instinctual, otherwise we would have died out as a species.

As for "good parenting" skills, I do believe that parenting should be taught in high schools. This may make me seem like a liberal, however, I think it is common sense. One of the biggest responsibilities we will ever have in life is raising children, if we choose to have them. Most people get "on the job" training for parenting. There are many, many skills involved in raising a healthy, happy, well-behaved, educated child. I realize this is something that is a political lightening rod to think that parenting classes would be good in schools, however, kids might think more carefully about having sex, and having children, if they were given the opportunity to see just how difficult raising children can be: the time, responsibility, 24/7 work, behavioral skills, education, health care, cost, school projects, and the list goes on and on. Knowledge is power.

Other than that, women are not "forced" to have children. And I also agree that those who "can't" have children should not be assumed to be "leftists" and politicos because of their inability to have children -- I do know several women who desperately wanted children and couldn't -- a couple lost their marriages, as a result. They were not leftist people, just normal, nice people who wanted a family. (Their husbands did not want to adopt, and one of the women refused to adopt, too -- she wanted her own children.)

And I do agree that this subject should be talked about while dating. Don't assume some guy is going to want kids if you get pregnant, and men shouldn't assume all women want children. I know lots of women who chose not to have children, and they are just fine and happy, and date men who also don't want children. It's learning about each other and making choices that are appropriate for your own needs and desires.

Interesting topic, though, and quite complex. Thanks for starting the thread!

[Mom2Feebs]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

I'm going to ask a question here, and I know it's going to be unpopular. I also know that I'll be attacked.

Why in the world do so many parents on this board still think that everyone should have kids?
Having a child is not for everyone, I wish it were not the default.

In the last 3 or 4 days, parents have posted three horrendous stories about bad parenting, some that have resulted in the deaths of their kids, and others of abuse and abandonment. These stories made national headlines, most abuse cases don't.

Child Abuse
According to data from the Administration on Children and Families, in 1998 there were an estimated 2,806,000 referrals of child abuse or neglect to relevant state or local agencies. These referrals resulted in an estimated 903,000 confirmed victims of maltreatment, a rate of 12.9 per 1,000 children nationwide. Of these, 11.5 percent suffered sexual abuse, 22.7 percent suffered physical abuse, and 53.5 percent suffered neglect. A quarter were victims of more than one type of maltreatment. Additionally, approximately 1,100 children died of abuse or neglect, a rate of 1.6 deaths per 100,000 children. Of all forms of abuse, about three quarters of the perpetrators were parents.

What about the guy who gave up 9 of his 10 kids; he was what, 34? What was he thinking to have 10 kids when he had a history of being unemployed. Safe haven in Nebraska could become a mental health center He has a history of unemployment, eviction notices and unpaid bills and could not make ends meet. Yet, that served as no deterrent to having kids.

What are some people thinking? Apparently, they're not.

Having a child does not equate to wanting them or having the wherewithal to care for them. It would be better to err on the side of not having kids.

This is a real question of “what about the chillllldddrrreeeeeennnnn?”

Please DO NOT MOVE THIS thread to the parenting forum.
This is about the politics involved; you know what will happen as soon as you move it to the parenting forum.

Who on this board thinks everyone should be having children?

[TKramar]

Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs

Who on this board thinks everyone should be having children?

Well, not childfree couples...those who don't WANT children.

But parents can't understand why anyone wouldn't WANT kids!