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Old 10-05-2008, 05:12 PM
 
1,619 posts, read 2,817,702 times
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As a "Woodstock-era" kid, I like to think of myself as a realistic Polyanna; perhaps that may be an oxymoron however I think that term is a practical one; one must be realistic in their lives, their choices and their accountabilities to their decisions and what goes hand in hand to our 'right' to make a choice, comes accountability. I think one of the major flaws these days, in our society, is the lack of accountability whether it be the 9-5 workers, the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or the case worker in a Department of Corrections. We understand, I believe, that we can make choices, even not making a choice/decision is a choice/decision; yet when a disappointment or choice leads us off the path we hoped to be on, we do not always hold ourselves accountable for that choice/decision. I think accountability is what not only gets us/companies/businesses/representatives in trouble, it is what brings out the anger, ire and frustration of others...not necessarily the decision made but the failure to be held accountable.

I think this lack of accountability holds true, unfortunately, within our judicial system. I have read many posts in a myriad of threads and find a consistent reaction to the "lack of accountability"...i.e., Wall Street CEO's, banks, judiciary, and the like.

I think it is important, not in a "revolutionary" way - smile-cuz that is so 'Anti-Woodstock' thinking ...to voice concerns, to raise concerns, and in writing, let those concerns and questions be presented...

For example: we read an article about a legal case; a judge, with their discretionary right renders a sentence; as a result of that sentence, that same offender hurts someone else..we are outraged that the system did not work...we have a choice...we can figure out a way to hold that judge accountable...letters get mailed to the Judicial Review Committee when it is time for that judged to be reviewed and/or be reappointed; we learn about serious inadequacies within a school system and our children are being denied the education they deserve; we write to or attend School Board meetings and hold the teachers and superindents accountable...

I think, in general, we all have let "lots go by" and we are now finding many many of us have the commonality of being frustrated and angry about our current situation(s)...I think we have two choices: one choice is not do anything and continue to be frustrated or we collectively decide to hold those who made choices which affected us strongly, to be held accountable.

Just something to toss around a little bit.....
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
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And how would you propose to do that?
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:48 PM
 
1,619 posts, read 2,817,702 times
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Hi, good question and I have not figured that part out yet, at all...

I recall that there was a judge, not in my county, although I guess it doesn't matter what that judge was, who, it seemed a tad inconsistent with some decisions, and bail issues, or lack thereof, and ultimately citizens in that county became more distressed with issues and some of them actually wrote to and attended the public hearings held by the Judicial Review Committee and although the judge was reappointed, by a margin, I understand, how cases are reviewed now and decided upon have been much more consistent. I don't know if things would have changed in that county had people not decided to voice their concerns and hold the judge accountable.

I tend to analyze, over analyze until I give myself a headache; one day my son said to me.."Mom, sometimes a rake is simply a rake". Maybe we need to get our thinking back to a more simplistic way, I don't know, I have no answers at least not yet.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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I have spent the better part of two hours skimming and/or reading many of the comments under the myriad of threads under this category; some are eye-popping, others, to me, are very scary, mean-spirited and others more practical. In the greater scheme of things, I think just about every comment can and does fall under the two headlines of this thread: Choice and Accountability.

I well understand trying to 'convince' others of their way of thinking: dialogue and communication are super tools to do so; I am, for example, pro-choice and I realize that there is nothing I can say or do to have anyone who is adament about the evils of being pro-choice to change their views; as well, I don't believe there is anyone who can change my view of the importance of being "allowed" to have a choice as to what they believe, morally, ethically and personally is the right thing for "me" to do or for themselves. And, I believe whatever choice that person makes, they are accountable to themselves for that choice.

What I do believe is that anyone who becomes vicious and/or violent because their belief(s) are not honored or adhered to and create harm to someone else, must also be held accountable for their actions and for the harm/hurt they have put on someone else.

Just as someone who commits a crime, in the eyes of the law, they must be held accountable for what they have done; they made a choice to do something and there needs to be accountability for that choice.

When times become difficult, as they are now, I think people tend to become even more volatile, insensitive and look for reasons or people to blame; I think we become fearful of what we don't know or understand, it can frighten people when they are out of their comfort zone and that lack of comfort and/or insecurity brings out anger, frustration and equally as dangerous, judgement. I also think that 'tunnel-looking' view can limit us from looking at the 'whole' picture and grasping what is truly important:

We are living in scary times; people are losing their jobs, their life-savings, their homes, people can't afford food, let alone medicine and heat; people are losing their children every day because we are in a war; we are becoming victims of crime because people are robbing stores for money for food, or breaking into homes for money for food; people are commiting suicide because they feel like failures...so what if someone is gay, so what if someone chooses to have a legal abortion... how about becoming accountable to ourselves and to others to help...for those who make such severjudgments, why wait until you do have to walk in some one else's shoes to find out that perhaps your judgment was not a valid one....
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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I have a policy that I try to follow.

There are two kinds of people. Ordinary guys who are just trying to do the best they can. And the other type is the person who sets out to attain a position of authority and responsibliity. The second group includes elected politicians, judges, education and health care professionals, lawyers, police officers, etc.

I will cut people slack in the first group, but not the second. In the first group, I try not to ever criticize anyone, unless they are clearly acting in such an antisocial way that they are a danger to the community, and even then, I recognize them as fallable people, subject to making mistakes in judgment. But the second group, I DO have a right to criticize, but only with respect to how they behave while in the stewardship of the public trust. I have a right to make a judgment about how well they have performed their duty where they are acting in the public trust (but I still do not judge anything they do in their private lives.) I hold that I have a right to say a policeman or a teacher did not exercise good judgment in the handling of the job that the public has entrusted them to handle. Bur I have no right to judge a cop or a teacher for what he does in his private life.
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:23 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 4,731,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
As a "Woodstock-era" kid, I like to think of myself as a realistic Polyanna; perhaps that may be an oxymoron however I think that term is a practical one; one must be realistic in their lives, their choices and their accountabilities to their decisions and what goes hand in hand to our 'right' to make a choice, comes accountability. I think one of the major flaws these days, in our society, is the lack of accountability whether it be the 9-5 workers, the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or the case worker in a Department of Corrections. We understand, I believe, that we can make choices, even not making a choice/decision is a choice/decision; yet when a disappointment or choice leads us off the path we hoped to be on, we do not always hold ourselves accountable for that choice/decision. I think accountability is what not only gets us/companies/businesses/representatives in trouble, it is what brings out the anger, ire and frustration of others...not necessarily the decision made but the failure to be held accountable.
Just something to toss around a little bit.....
Woodstock-era kid? Accountability?
Are you forgetting that “Woodstock” started out as a ticketed concert that was crashed by mind numbed people that decided to just show up and force their way in? Where was the accountability then?
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:28 PM
 
1,619 posts, read 2,817,702 times
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Well said! I agree with you..we do have a right to judge the performance of a police officer, a teacher, a judge, a senator, etc. and certainly a president, to name but a few and I concur that what one does in the privacy of their home and their lives, we do not.

I remember learning this the very hard way...I remember, years ago, watching, I believe it was an Oprah show, and listening to a group of intellent, articulate women talk about their husbands/SO's (significant others) whom it turned out were living two very different lives. I sat in amazement wondering and 'judging' how could they be so foolish, so naive, be so blind, etc., what was the matter with them....and then, I then I learned, that I had been living it as well...I am an intelligent and articulate woman, and boy oh boy, I had not a clue. Tough lesson but a valuable one...don't make judgments and don't presume you really know what is going on in someone else's life, because in a all likeihood, you don't have a clue!
Thanks!
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:30 PM
 
1,619 posts, read 2,817,702 times
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Good point raised re: Woodstock -oriented...we did have tickets, however and I was referring more to the 'peace, love and rock n' roll and harmony stuff'; I guess I was not a total Woodstock kid, I never went to Haight-Ashbury and I did not do drugs...but other than that...I did believe in peace, harmony, and great music!
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,663,973 times
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Woodstock was an Ox-Bow Incident. Good people can be persuaded to do anything you want them to do, as Hitler proved spectacularly.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:09 PM
 
1,619 posts, read 2,817,702 times
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Hitler excelled at propaganda, brain-washing, fear, blame and ethnocentrism...leading lambs to slaughter yet for those 'good people' who could not be persuaded to do anything he wanted them to do, either fled, helped others flee or died in their attempts to do so. I believe, and perhaps that is my naivete, that if something, whether an ideal, societal force and influence truly is against your grain and fabric of your belief system, you cannot be led to do so.
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