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Old 11-08-2008, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
714 posts, read 1,302,143 times
Reputation: 177

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Despite all of the whining about socialism under Obama, the U.S. has been a socialist country for a long time. Obama is nothing new. How long have we been saying certain companies are "too big to fail"? How long have we been bailing out airlines and automakers? That's not capitalism, sorry. That's socialism for private industry.

We had socialism under Bush. Does the $700 billion bailout of investment banks sound familiar? In a capitalist systems, CEOs of these banks would be out on the street selling apples and begging for food. Instead, these "crony capitalists" are out partying on our dime.

Both parties are socialist. Get over it. It's just a matter of whether we get socialism for the rich or socialism for the poor. It's not surprising that a majority of Americans chose the latter.

If it were up to me, we'd have no socialism at all. But right now, only libertarians like Bob Barr and Ron Paul are advocating such a policy. I don't think they have a prayer, because almost everyone, rich and poor, feels they are entitled to someone else's tax dollars. It's a deep moral problem that we pay for with the loss of our freedoms.

There can be no freedom without basic morality and responsibility. As long as we believe the magical "Someone Else" is responsible for our mistakes, we'll have socialism.
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 779,893 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpoeppel View Post
Despite all of the whining about socialism under Obama, the U.S. has been a socialist country for a long time. Obama is nothing new. How long have we been saying certain companies are "too big to fail"? How long have we been bailing out airlines and automakers? That's not capitalism, sorry. That's socialism for private industry.

We had socialism under Bush. Does the $700 billion bailout of investment banks sound familiar? In a capitalist systems, CEOs of these banks would be out on the street selling apples and begging for food. Instead, these "crony capitalists" are out partying on our dime.

Both parties are socialist. Get over it. It's just a matter of whether we get socialism for the rich or socialism for the poor. It's not surprising that a majority of Americans chose the latter.

If it were up to me, we'd have no socialism at all. But right now, only libertarians like Bob Barr and Ron Paul are advocating such a policy. I don't think they have a prayer, because almost everyone, rich and poor, feels they are entitled to someone else's tax dollars. It's a deep moral problem that we pay for with the loss of our freedoms.

There can be no freedom without basic morality and responsibility. As long as we believe the magical "Someone Else" is responsible for our mistakes, we'll have socialism.
to think that is silly, because you dont take into consideration any other factors whe you talk about the rich and poor and once again put a gorup of americans in the "whiner section". not all people who go to america succeed obviously. the thing is that some people make it while others dont. even the "better of the two" can fail.

however does this mean he should fall into the group of poor americans?? as is mentioned in other threads, the US has the worst case of CEO getting paid more then their lower counterparts. The CEO's in japan and europe make less, btu does tha tmena they are undervalued? do they live in a noticibly poorer situation or are they still "rich but not super rich"?

what are the benefits to this? well that means people down the company vine make more money. is japan any less competitive then the US? definently not, they are actually probaby more competitive.

btu what has done this?? well a number of factors. a highly modernized education system that has been updated with the modern 'technological times", unliek its north american coutnerpart which is still extremely old fashioned.

overall good health and diet. not only free hospitals, but a country with overall better health and such. (this doesnt seem important, but tonnes of things link to obesity ect)

anwyays the point is japan is socialist but still look at thier innovation
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
4,768 posts, read 2,252,679 times
Reputation: 1698
Quote:
Originally Posted by leangk View Post
to think that is silly, because you dont take into consideration any other factors whe you talk about the rich and poor and once again put a gorup of americans in the "whiner section". not all people who go to america succeed obviously. the thing is that some people make it while others dont. even the "better of the two" can fail.

however does this mean he should fall into the group of poor americans?? as is mentioned in other threads, the US has the worst case of CEO getting paid more then their lower counterparts. The CEO's in japan and europe make less, btu does tha tmena they are undervalued? do they live in a noticibly poorer situation or are they still "rich but not super rich"?

what are the benefits to this? well that means people down the company vine make more money. is japan any less competitive then the US? definently not, they are actually probaby more competitive.

btu what has done this?? well a number of factors. a highly modernized education system that has been updated with the modern 'technological times", unliek its north american coutnerpart which is still extremely old fashioned.

overall good health and diet. not only free hospitals, but a country with overall better health and such. (this doesnt seem important, but tonnes of things link to obesity ect)

anwyays the point is japan is socialist but still look at thier innovation
A lot of Japan's socialism comes from that well knoiwn bunch of commies
lead by comrade Douglas MacArthur who put that bombed-out nuked country back together from 1945 to 1951. MacArthur put Japan on the path to take care of its people and become pacificists. The had buseido and were good students of MacArthur-sensei. Post-war Japan is one of America's greatest sucess stories.
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
714 posts, read 1,302,143 times
Reputation: 177
My main point is that socialism in this country is nothing new. It's been benefiting corporations and the rich for a long time. It shouldn't be surprising that the masses want to get in gorging themselves at the public trough too.
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:39 PM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,208,348 times
Reputation: 3912
Socialism is a part of every society. The reasons we form societies at all are centered around risk-sharing and redistributions of income. You'd think people would be used to it by now...
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:26 PM
 
67 posts, read 169,138 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Socialism is a part of every society
Correct. Most countries, including the U.S., have socialized defense, socialized education, socialized highways, socialized water supplies, socialized parks, etc. They cause very little, if any, controversy.
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
714 posts, read 1,302,143 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen n View Post
Correct. Most countries, including the U.S., have socialized defense, socialized education, socialized highways, socialized water supplies, socialized parks, etc. They cause very little, if any, controversy.
Well, the things you mentioned aren't usually associated with "socialist" countries alone. The things you mentioned are basic infrastructure, not the attempt to provide for every person's wants and needs with government programs.
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:47 PM
 
1,905 posts, read 1,488,833 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen n View Post
Correct. Most countries, including the U.S., have socialized defense, socialized education, socialized highways, socialized water supplies, socialized parks, etc. They cause very little, if any, controversy.

I think you got a little too much "socialized education".
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:35 PM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,208,348 times
Reputation: 3912
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpoeppel View Post
Well, the things you mentioned aren't usually associated with "socialist" countries alone. The things you mentioned are basic infrastructure, not the attempt to provide for every person's wants and needs with government programs.
Syrup with those waffles?
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:38 PM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,208,348 times
Reputation: 3912
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalrap View Post
I think you got a little too much "socialized education".
Yeah, too much education is a bad thing. That's what turns you into an intellectual elite who's out of touch with mainstream America.
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