Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They provide jobs, but good is very relative. The country, the rural areas, are the only places many of these workers can live and have a middle class life. In addition if labor loses choice the risk that even in the rural areas workers would slip into lower class becomes very possible. In short, no body willing pays you anymore than the less you'll take. Unions to spite all their BS, helped balance interests. Choice is the only thing I see which could do the same for modern market based labor. Infact I'm vigilant in my own career of this because wall st and Washington could give one damn for me.
So how come these plants in the south aren't demanding a giant taxpayer bailout? The workers in these plants are paid well but not the $78 an hour that the workers of Detroit get.
So how come these plants in the south aren't demanding a giant taxpayer bailout? The workers in these plants are paid well but not the $78 an hour that the workers of Detroit get.
They don't *make* $78 an hour.. that's the cost equivalent per man hour of all overhead associated with the business, applied to the hours worked by current employees. $78 an hour is over $150k a year.. most assembly plant workers are not making anywhere near that (and most aren't half that).
Don't underestimate the core- self interest. Ol' Shelby has foreign manufactures in his state with no union labor. He ain't buying into Michigan, bailout or not.
This is bigger than GM, this is the final nail of - or perhaps a final gasp of death of, blue collar America. Decades from now we'll celebrate because we did so well then and now, or reflect on how poor and unequal America has become.
Economists are as good as lead in knowing which it will be.
shelby voted no on the wall street bailout bill and was right about that one as well. there is no guarantee that an auto bailout will work and in fact there might be a backlash against GM, just like there was a backlash against wall street, with even less people buying their cars than normal. americans are fed up with bailouts for anybody!
Guess you all are big NAFTA fans. All the Republicans are doing is telling you they're willing to sacrifice three million US jobs unless they get their Colombian trade deal.
Which makes no sense if they sign Colombian trade deal more will be lost-- just like NAFTA. I just love how Nafta which was a Bush Sr. thing got shoved off on Clinton to deal with and now we have another Bush fam trade USA JOB Killer being pushed on the Dems. What is wrong with these insane people?
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Senate banking committee, called the plan "a road to nowhere." He called the "Big Three" — Detroit's three major automakers — "a dinosaur," and said on NBC's Meet the Press that they are "not building the right products. … They don't innovate." Shelby's state is home to plants owned by Honda, Toyota and Mercedes-Benz, foreign-owned companies that would not be eligible for bailout funds under a proposal by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.
Michigan-based General Motors, Ford and Chrysler have made changes in recent years but need help to survive the economic crisis, Levin said on Meet the Press. GM reported last month that it is running out of cash.
This is about him wanting Mi to fail so HIS state's jobs do better.
They provide jobs, but good is very relative. The country, the rural areas, are the only places many of these workers can live and have a middle class life. In addition if labor loses choice the risk that even in the rural areas workers would slip into lower class becomes very possible. In short, no body willing pays you anymore than the less you'll take. Unions to spite all their BS, helped balance interests. Choice is the only thing I see which could do the same for modern market based labor. Infact I'm vigilant in my own career of this because wall st and Washington could give one damn for me.
A little research might correct the inaccuracies of your post. I live in a medium size city (200,000 pop.) where a Toyota plant was built several years ago. The median income of the county I live in is $55K which easily allows for purchase of the median priced home of $170K. Not exactly the country rural area you describe.
Additional data on the city from CD - over 85% of adults have at least HS diploma, 38+% have BA/BS, 12+% have grad/professional degree. Data for adjoining suburban city where I actually live - 94+% at least HS, 54% BA/BS, 17+% grad/Prof degree. Hmmmmm - doesn't look like the rural depressed area you described!
Last edited by VMH2507; 11-18-2008 at 07:25 AM..
Reason: addition
Don't underestimate the core- self interest. Ol' Shelby has foreign manufactures in his state with no union labor. He ain't buying into Michigan, bailout or not.
This is bigger than GM, this is the final nail of - or perhaps a final gasp of death of, blue collar America. Decades from now we'll celebrate because we did so well then and now, or reflect on how poor and unequal America has become.
Economists are as good as lead in knowing which it will be.
That is a good point. Though that may be Shelby's self interst it is also in my interst as well. How are we going to pay for all these bailouts. I opposed the bank bailout as well for that matter. The entire first time in history I have agreed with Shelby was a hyperbole. (I would still never vote for him though). I am 22, I am already going to have to face much higher taxes for the rest of my life to pay for all the republican deficit spending from 2000-06 and the bipartisan deficit spending of 06-08. I do not under any circumstances want any more unnessecary spending. I frankly could not care less about how it would affect MI vs. AL. What I care about is that when I am in my working prime 30-50 I am going to have to pay huge taxes solely to pay off the deficits we have been racking up. I will not see that money in any form education, grants, safty, transit, inferstructure etc. because it has already been spent. So I will pretty much oppose any unnessecary spending period.
Actually Shelby is a fiscal conservative and I for one not only have the ability to vote for him but plan to at every opportunity!!!
In my case free trade and economic issues are only one piece of the pie.
Social issues, the environment, education, the religious right and the GOPs record of deficit spending are a poison pill combination for me in regards to voting for Republican right now.
A little research might correct the inaccuracies of your post. I live in a medium size city (200,000 pop.) where a Toyota plant was built several years ago. The median income of the county I live in is $55K which easily allows for purchase of the median priced home of $170K. Not exactly the country rural area you describe.
Additional data on the city from CD - over 85% of adults have at least HS diploma, 38+% have BA/BS, 12+% have grad/professional degree. Data for adjoining suburban city where I actually live - 94+% at least HS, 54% BA/BS, 17+% grad/Prof degree. Hmmmmm - doesn't look like the rural depressed area you described!
I'm not suggesting depressed areas, rather suggesting long term quality of life. Some of those stats look very good and some do not. Their is a sort of 'arbitrage' going on. That's just a fancy word for moving from Detriot making 70K to your town making 55K and living just as well.Sounds good, but you can kill buyers and sellers I markets like this, and many people find a cost, hidden, when they move in situations like these- oppourtunity. and that is what my post was about, not your town which again seems nice.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
