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Old 01-25-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 6,192,005 times
Reputation: 844

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Of course you would. And when I provide it, you'll spin it somehow.

While we're fetching links and statistics, I'd like some links that show how common partial birth abortions are.
Here is some information about partial birth abortions.

For what reasons are partial-birth abortions usually performed?

 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:30 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,615,585 times
Reputation: 1913
Quote:
1. Partial-birth abortion, or the dismembering of babies as they are being born, will now be legal. Nay

2. Parental consent laws for minors will no longer be in effect. Although a seventeen-year-old girl has to have her parents present in order to get acne medicine, a thirteen-year-old can get an abortion without her parents knowing. Think of the injury done to these young women, as well as to their children! Fine

3. Laws prohibiting public funding of abortion will be struck down. The American taxpayer will now have to fund something many of us know to be murder. Fine. You'd be fuming if only you knew the truth about how many awful things your tax dollars subsidize. This would be the least of them.

4. Laws requiring women to be shown information about (including being shown ultrasounds) and alternatives to abortion will be struck down. Think about any other surgery that's performed: you are bombarded with information. And yet, in one of the most invasive medical procedures, women would be kept ignorant of the facts. Nay. Sounds petty. A woman should know everything before making the choice.

5. Laws allowing medical staff and hospitals to refuse to perform abortion on grounds of conscience will be struck down. (Where's the freedom of choice here?) Nay

6. Laws prohibiting medical personnel other than licensed physicians from performing abortions would be invalidated because they may "interfere with" access to abortion. (Talk about protection for women!) Just...dangerous...

7. Government agencies and officials are prohibited from taking any action that would "discriminate against the exercise of" the FOCA-created legal rights, with respect to any "benefits, facilities, services, or information," would leave government officials open to lawsuits for anything that anybody thought "discriminate(s)" against abortion. That's a sensible one.
There's more bad in this law than good. That's if this is all true. The source doesn't sound like the most objective out there...
 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 6,192,005 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
1. Partial-birth abortion, or the dismembering of babies as they are being born, will now be legal. Nay

2. Parental consent laws for minors will no longer be in effect. Although a seventeen-year-old girl has to have her parents present in order to get acne medicine, a thirteen-year-old can get an abortion without her parents knowing. Think of the injury done to these young women, as well as to their children! Fine

3. Laws prohibiting public funding of abortion will be struck down. The American taxpayer will now have to fund something many of us know to be murder. Fine. You'd be fuming if only you knew the truth about how many awful things your tax dollars subsidize. This would be the least of them.

4. Laws requiring women to be shown information about (including being shown ultrasounds) and alternatives to abortion will be struck down. Think about any other surgery that's performed: you are bombarded with information. And yet, in one of the most invasive medical procedures, women would be kept ignorant of the facts. Nay. Sounds petty. A woman should know everything before making the choice.

5. Laws allowing medical staff and hospitals to refuse to perform abortion on grounds of conscience will be struck down. (Where's the freedom of choice here?) Nay

6. Laws prohibiting medical personnel other than licensed physicians from performing abortions would be invalidated because they may "interfere with" access to abortion. (Talk about protection for women!) Just...dangerous...

7. Government agencies and officials are prohibited from taking any action that would "discriminate against the exercise of" the FOCA-created legal rights, with respect to any "benefits, facilities, services, or information," would leave government officials open to lawsuits for anything that anybody thought "discriminate(s)" against abortion. That's a sensible one.

There's more bad in this law than good.
Agreed, whether you are pro-abortion or not.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:34 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,444,585 times
Reputation: 4031
That's def. not for the squeamish.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,176 posts, read 10,143,657 times
Reputation: 7060
Good info.

Still has nothing to do with a group attempting to impose its moral code on everyone else including those who do not share the same views,

I still vote to leave the debate solely in the hands of women to decide, best idea, leave it to the individual woman. There is not a man who ever lived who has any business anywhere near this issue.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:45 PM
 
1,079 posts, read 1,561,525 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Good info.

Still has nothing to do with a group imposing its moral code on everyone else including those who do not share the same views,

I still vote to leave the debate solely in the hands of women to decide. There is not a man who ever lived who has any business anywhere near this issue.
Bah, that argument doesn't hold water. Unless you want to bar people who haven't served in the military from making decisions affecting the military. Or any straight people from passing laws that affect gay people. Or anyone from the city from passing laws affecting country people.

And murder is murder whether it's a baby or an adult...or do you object to laws against murder because all those anti-murder people are trying to impose their anti-murder morals on you?
 
Old 01-25-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,965 posts, read 2,425,013 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Good info.

Still has nothing to do with a group attempting to impose its moral code on everyone else including those who do not share the same views,

I still vote to leave the debate solely in the hands of women to decide, best idea, leave it to the individual woman. There is not a man who ever lived who has any business anywhere near this issue.
So true. Percentages are absolutely irrelevant. It doesn't make a difference whether 0% or 90% of annual abortions are due to rape or incest. Doesn't change the fact that it is (and should always be) an individual woman's right to choose whether or not she terminates a pregnancy that takes place within her own body. It is no other woman's, and especially no other man's, business to decide for her. End of story.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 02:03 PM
 
1,079 posts, read 1,561,525 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
So true. Percentages are absolutely irrelevant. It doesn't make a difference whether 0% or 90% of annual abortions are due to rape or incest. Doesn't change the fact that it is (and should always be) an individual woman's right to choose whether or not she terminates a pregnancy that takes place within her own body. It is no other woman's, and especially no other man's, business to decide for her. End of story.
I have no problem with a woman doing what she wants to her own body. None of my business. However, what she does to another human being, well, that's where I draw the line. And unless someone can show me that a fetus is not human, that's my position.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 6,192,005 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
So true. Percentages are absolutely irrelevant. It doesn't make a difference whether 0% or 90% of annual abortions are due to rape or incest. Doesn't change the fact that it is (and should always be) an individual woman's right to choose whether or not she terminates a pregnancy that takes place within her own body. It is no other woman's, and especially no other man's, business to decide for her. End of story.
I agree, it is solely the woman's right to kill the unborn baby under all circumstances. And we think we are so civilized.
 
Old 01-25-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,176 posts, read 10,143,657 times
Reputation: 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Bah, that argument doesn't hold water. Unless you want to bar people who haven't served in the military from making decisions affecting the military. Or any straight people from passing laws that affect gay people. Or anyone from the city from passing laws affecting country people.

And murder is murder whether it's a baby or an adult...or do you object to laws against murder because all those anti-murder people are trying to impose their anti-murder morals on you?
Abortion is not murder under the laws of the land, and should not be, and never will be as long as America remains sane.

The military is operated by the government, not by individuals. The use of the military is not an issue that affects individual choice.

By the same token, gays should have equal rights to 'Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit Of Happiness" that anyone else in America does, and if they choose to marry, that should be their choice and no one else's. The very fact that this is spoken of in terms of making laws shows how far this country has left to go.

I hope in my lifetime that All People Will Be Considered Equal, regardless, and all have the same rights and respect unless they choose to give them up through their actions.
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