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Personally I am a fiscal conservative, tough on crime, pro gun, anti-drug.
I am also a liberal thinker and believe my or anybody elses religion has no place in government. That includes stem cell, womans rights, and who can get married.
I place the environment over business.
I believe our politicians preach values, than churn out policies that ultimately contradict those values.
Actually my worst fear is that the only difference between our and other governments is instead of being told to believe a lie - is that we have a choice in whose lies to believe in.
What I am getting at is the debate over libs and cons is a waste compared to individual issues.
Just my rant.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 02-22-2007 at 02:20 PM..
Reason: Spacing
Actually my worst fear is that the only difference between our and other governments is instead of being told to believe a lie - is that we have a choice in whose lies to believe in.
What I am getting at is the debate over libs and cons is a waste compared to individual issues.
Beautifully said! If we could focus more on what we share rather than what sets us apart, we could all work together to ensure that everyone in the world community receives the things we all value as human beings -- freedom, justice, liberty, economic and social equality...
I also hate single-issue politics and so-called litmus tests for Federal judges. It doesn't matter how great a legal scholar a person is, the only thing that seems to count is where does the candidate stand on one certain issue. This is stupid and needs to stop.
In the past 20 years we're had both parties take turns running the country.
No matter which party ran the country, nothing much seemed to change.
Regardless of which party was in power we got scandals of all sorts. Financial scandals like the Reagan-Bush Saving & Loan fiasco; Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, Global Crossings, etc corporate excesses happened on Bill Clinton's watch; we got a huge housing bubble under G.W. Bush with tens of billions of dollars in bad loans now being written off.
Quality of life doesn't seem to improve either, we get little or no health care for millions of people, we get deficit spending, we've had no real control over our southern border for 20 years regardless of which party was in power.
Jobs keep going overseas... neither party in Congress or the White House seems to care either.
We get lip service, that's about it.
I call this the YO-YO principle. It means You're On Your Own. If people haven't gotten THAT message, after all these years, they must be dense. Our well being, our education, our retirement, our healthcare will only be squared away if we do it for OURselves. There will be NO help whatsoever from the elected federal office holders. They know it. Look at the long-term budget picture. That's WHY the states are now stepping up to solve many of the issues - Governors know they are in the same YOYO trick bag with us.
In an election year, the YOYO principle also means BOHICA - Bend Over Here It Comes Again - the lies, the mud....
Yes, whose lies do we believe for the 2008 election... do we really believe that:
- voting for gay marriage ruins the "sanctity" of traditional marriage (with it's 50% FAILURE rate)!
- providing health care will bankrupt us... even though we eat the cost of emergency room care for the uninsured
- closing the gun show loophole means everyone's guns are going to be taken away any day now...
- pollution is going to poison us all until we're extinct
These are all BIG lies, used to control people with fear. There are reasonable solutions to all of these issues. We can solve them. Solving those means the talking heads of the NRA, Sierra Club, Focus on the Family, Amer Med Assoc, etc, will no longer be able to send letters with the latest fear headline and milk people of even more of money... which they will use to try and buy Congressional and White House influence. All special interest groups are nothing but creeps, living fat by pandering to irrational fears.
No matter which side of the game you're on, you get labeled with hideous tags like bleeding heart liberal or right-wing nut job. The labels are poisonous, and on purpose, to keep the faithful from straying from the party-line. If they can demonize the other guy, they can keep you in their camp, where they can milk you for votes and money - then do as they damned well please after the election. Once in office, they have all sorts of obscure, arcane procedural rules to table YOUR pet issue so it won't get passed / resolved this year. But they damned sight do find a means to resolve a tax break or loophole for whatever vested interest sends them big campaign money.
It all sucks. DONT RE-ELECT ANYONE until things get BETTER.
Beautifully said! If we could focus more on what we share rather than what sets us apart, we could all work together to ensure that everyone in the world community receives the things we all value as human beings -- freedom, justice, liberty, economic and social equality...
no,we should focus on upholding the constitution,I dont elect leaders to be leader of the world,I elect them to uphold the ideals of America.Yes,world events should be considered but not at the expense of America.
"we all value as human beings",well different people around the world have different values.Which is why sometimes I dont appreciate the UN pushing their values on America,because often I consider their values sub standard compared to America's.
as far as shutting down special interests such as the sierra club,nra and such,why?A person should listen to it if they choose, then subjectively agree or dismiss it.Freedom of speech does not necessarily mean freedom of truth.You mentioned "gunshow loophole".I can tell you this is spinned wrongly in some regards but many do not even attempt to investigate further...they just accept it as a "reasonable" thing to fix.
non ideological ,this country itself is based ideals,everybody is ideological in some sense...so we fight, we argue ,we use propaganda,the difference here is usually its done peacefully.Some countries are so polarized its dangerous to express your political view,if you are in the wrong area.
thank goodness the founders had ehough foresight to provide checks and balances to the system,and that we constantly can vote out a disappointment.It all hinges on citizens informing themselves and taking personal responsibilty in including themselves in the process...which as Ben Franklin said,we have given you a Republic if you can keep it.
Beautifully said! If we could focus more on what we share rather than what sets us apart, we could all work together to ensure that everyone in the world community receives the things we all value as human beings -- freedom, justice, liberty, economic and social equality...
This is exactly what I believe in, too, except some on this board have made me out to be some left-wing commie nutjob because of it
I also hate single-issue politics and so-called litmus tests for Federal judges. It doesn't matter how great a legal scholar a person is, the only thing that seems to count is where does the candidate stand on one certain issue. This is stupid and needs to stop.
In the past 20 years we're had both parties take turns running the country.
No matter which party ran the country, nothing much seemed to change.
Regardless of which party was in power we got scandals of all sorts. Financial scandals like the Reagan-Bush Saving & Loan fiasco; Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, Global Crossings, etc corporate excesses happened on Bill Clinton's watch; we got a huge housing bubble under G.W. Bush with tens of billions of dollars in bad loans now being written off.
Quality of life doesn't seem to improve either, we get little or no health care for millions of people, we get deficit spending, we've had no real control over our southern border for 20 years regardless of which party was in power.
Jobs keep going overseas... neither party in Congress or the White House seems to care either.
We get lip service, that's about it.
I call this the YO-YO principle. It means You're On Your Own. If people haven't gotten THAT message, after all these years, they must be dense. Our well being, our education, our retirement, our healthcare will only be squared away if we do it for OURselves. There will be NO help whatsoever from the elected federal office holders. They know it. Look at the long-term budget picture. That's WHY the states are now stepping up to solve many of the issues - Governors know they are in the same YOYO trick bag with us.
In an election year, the YOYO principle also means BOHICA - Bend Over Here It Comes Again - the lies, the mud....
Yes, whose lies do we believe for the 2008 election... do we really believe that:
- voting for gay marriage ruins the "sanctity" of traditional marriage (with it's 50% FAILURE rate)!
- providing health care will bankrupt us... even though we eat the cost of emergency room care for the uninsured
- closing the gun show loophole means everyone's guns are going to be taken away any day now...
- pollution is going to poison us all until we're extinct
These are all BIG lies, used to control people with fear. There are reasonable solutions to all of these issues. We can solve them. Solving those means the talking heads of the NRA, Sierra Club, Focus on the Family, Amer Med Assoc, etc, will no longer be able to send letters with the latest fear headline and milk people of even more of money... which they will use to try and buy Congressional and White House influence. All special interest groups are nothing but creeps, living fat by pandering to irrational fears.
No matter which side of the game you're on, you get labeled with hideous tags like bleeding heart liberal or right-wing nut job. The labels are poisonous, and on purpose, to keep the faithful from straying from the party-line. If they can demonize the other guy, they can keep you in their camp, where they can milk you for votes and money - then do as they damned well please after the election. Once in office, they have all sorts of obscure, arcane procedural rules to table YOUR pet issue so it won't get passed / resolved this year. But they damned sight do find a means to resolve a tax break or loophole for whatever vested interest sends them big campaign money.
It all sucks. DONT RE-ELECT ANYONE until things get BETTER.
s/Mike
Wow- awesome rant!
I think all this cuts to the heart of what I think is the real problem with our government- two parties, neither of whom adequately represent the common folk, just aren't cutting it anymore. How many elections have we had where we walk up to the poll feeling like we're selecting the guy (or gal) we dislike least, instead of someone who we feel really great about? For me, it's been pretty much every one. Fact is- both parties are beholden to the corporations first and foremost. The Democrats just do a better job of being more subtle about it. Nothing will change until there are viable alternatives that are responsive to people.
How many elections have we had where we walk up to the poll feeling like we're selecting the guy (or gal) we dislike least, instead of someone who we feel really great about?
I'll agree on that.
and yes we should always remember some common ground in the end.We will call each other names and rant,but at some point there must be some sort of bond that keeps us united.
I think all this cuts to the heart of what I think is the real problem with our government- two parties, neither of whom adequately represent the common folk, just aren't cutting it anymore..
One of my favorite quotes “People once possessed of power are always loathe to part with it”.
Personally I am a fiscal conservative, tough on crime, pro gun, anti-drug.
I am also a liberal thinker and believe my or anybody elses religion has no place in government. That includes stem cell, womans rights, and who can get married.
I place the environment over business.
I believe our politicians preach values, than churn out policies that ultimately contradict those values.
Actually my worst fear is that the only difference between our and other governments is instead of being told to believe a lie - is that we have a choice in whose lies to believe in.
What I am getting at is the debate over libs and cons is a waste compared to individual issues.
Just my rant.
as much as i really hate to rain on this lovefest! i respectfully have to disagree with the whole rodney king approach to politics. i too think that it would be great if a third party could work but the truth is they never have & never will! like it or not we have a two party system and the way to make a difference is to get involved at the grass roots level with the party closest to your beliefs and change it from within. partisanship is good, what are some major acomplishments made by a moderate? it takes strong, bold ideas which always become watered down any how, because of the nature of the whole political process!
Last edited by silas777; 02-22-2007 at 07:24 PM..
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If we could focus more on what we share rather than what sets us apart, we could all work together to ensure that everyone in the world community receives the things we all value as human beings -- freedom, justice, liberty, economic and social equality...
