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Old 11-19-2008, 06:52 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,002,442 times
Reputation: 14896

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But, but, buut... It's all the unions fault!
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:32 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,664,057 times
Reputation: 18036
Remember all those jobs that Delorian promised if the british governamnt would just back his company?The leaders of the big three sounded just lie that.Afterall;the woprse that can happen is they go bankrupt a few months later.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:22 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,469,168 times
Reputation: 22275
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
I listened to the hearings on the radio today and some of Congress were asking them very sarcastic questions in reference to their private jets. I'm sure that it made them squirm. Makes you wonder how people that reach such high positions on the corporate ladder can be so stupid. I suppose it is just their arrogance that makes them think that they are worthy of such extravagance while begging for a handout.
They probably didn't squirm from embarassment. These guys have no shame.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,425 posts, read 5,262,834 times
Reputation: 1695
I think the fact that they showed up in private corporate luxury jets just shows the level of corruption that exists in america. So much so, that they wouldn't even think twice about it, and fail to recognize the message it sends. These CEO's are so out of touch with reality, and so filled with entitlement that it's absolutely disgusting. Blame it on the unions huh? well last time I checked, management and the union come to agreements and there is nothing the union can promote that management doesn't have to approve of or negotiate. Bottom line, these CEO's ran these american staples into the ground by not diversifying and thinking they can just push out anything. America is the largest car selling market in the world. We consume the most amount of cars anywhere per capita even. Most americans in the past few decades have made it a point to buy american cars. My parents have, and I have, EVEN though it has been a bit more money than cheap competitors from foreign countries. I've owned fords my whole life, and as of now, I STILL own a Jeep. But comparing the cars I've owned to friends who have these other "cheap foreign" cars... I've found that my american cars are poorer quality, on TOP of being expensive. I never had a problem with it being more expensive, knowing that they paid their employees good wages. But offering me gas guzzling environment destroying options, as well as poor quality (In some cases downright trash) in exchange for that higher price I pay. Is a double wammy slap in the face, and makes me question the high end business decisions made by these companies. Are they really providing good jobs in exchange for good products to be proud to own? or are they exchanging higher wages for poorer quality and keeping the profits only to line their own pockets cashing in on my patriotism?
As a liberal democrat... these bailouts make me sick... and I don't like them... but I'm torn.. i don't like people losing jobs and families suffering...These people who run these companies in the ground need to be held accountable every last one of them... It might sound harsh and mean, but I don't think bailing these companies out is a good idea.. It is a short term fix that shoots ALL of us in the foot in the long term. I'm getting to the point where we just need to let everything crash and fall where it may and start over with tight regulation and Strict business standards to ensure these things never happen again... otherwise, we're just putting off the inevitable, and the select few that caused all of this will just pocket from the bailouts and retire in bermuda at everyone's expense. They'll run our companies into the ground and then rob our treasury.. its happening as we speak... F-that!
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,505 posts, read 23,724,078 times
Reputation: 8837
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
The Big 3 doesn't need a bailout. It's ridiculous to think that the $25 billion could rescue any of them, long term.
The shape they are in now, is the result of decades of bad decision-making and a complete lack of interest and respect towards embracing greener and less gas-guzzling vehicles. Totally irresponsible.
As-a-result, they should go bankrupt. That's what happens when bad business decisions are made, and things don't sell. Welcome to the real world!! No bailouts! Let the cards fall where they may, is what I say.
Exactly, I was against the first bailout, Lou dobbs was correct on that issue.

What is happening in this country? Its frightening....
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:05 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 3,749,975 times
Reputation: 3338
The corruption is from the top down. From the CEO clowns to the Union thugs. Everyone working at the big three played a significant role in how they got here and they all deserve what's coming to them.

But Obama said he's going to bail them out, so whatever....
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:04 AM
 
26,297 posts, read 17,198,522 times
Reputation: 10273
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
I think the fact that they showed up in private corporate luxury jets just shows the level of corruption that exists in america. So much so, that they wouldn't even think twice about it, and fail to recognize the message it sends. These CEO's are so out of touch with reality, and so filled with entitlement that it's absolutely disgusting. Blame it on the unions huh? well last time I checked, management and the union come to agreements and there is nothing the union can promote that management doesn't have to approve of or negotiate. Bottom line, these CEO's ran these american staples into the ground by not diversifying and thinking they can just push out anything. America is the largest car selling market in the world. We consume the most amount of cars anywhere per capita even. Most americans in the past few decades have made it a point to buy american cars. My parents have, and I have, EVEN though it has been a bit more money than cheap competitors from foreign countries. I've owned fords my whole life, and as of now, I STILL own a Jeep. But comparing the cars I've owned to friends who have these other "cheap foreign" cars... I've found that my american cars are poorer quality, on TOP of being expensive. I never had a problem with it being more expensive, knowing that they paid their employees good wages. But offering me gas guzzling environment destroying options, as well as poor quality (In some cases downright trash) in exchange for that higher price I pay. Is a double wammy slap in the face, and makes me question the high end business decisions made by these companies. Are they really providing good jobs in exchange for good products to be proud to own? or are they exchanging higher wages for poorer quality and keeping the profits only to line their own pockets cashing in on my patriotism?
As a liberal democrat... these bailouts make me sick... and I don't like them... but I'm torn.. i don't like people losing jobs and families suffering...These people who run these companies in the ground need to be held accountable every last one of them... It might sound harsh and mean, but I don't think bailing these companies out is a good idea.. It is a short term fix that shoots ALL of us in the foot in the long term. I'm getting to the point where we just need to let everything crash and fall where it may and start over with tight regulation and Strict business standards to ensure these things never happen again... otherwise, we're just putting off the inevitable, and the select few that caused all of this will just pocket from the bailouts and retire in bermuda at everyone's expense. They'll run our companies into the ground and then rob our treasury.. its happening as we speak... F-that!
I totally agree. Enough is enough! These bailouts are the biggest heists in world history. I heard someone suggest that the government should turn the companies over to the workers, which is a far better idea than allowing the leeches to give it another go. For all these years, they have done nothing to bring us into the future. They were not about making cars, they were about making money and that's it! Every five minutes there was another car commerical on TV and I would change the channel because it just felt in your face piggish. Hooray for me, the hell with you attitude abounds. They killed the EV-1 and what angers and frustrates me even more, is that so many Americans bought these big, ugly road hogs that they were selling. I never bought into to any of this crap for one minute. For years I have been wondering what happened to the energy efficiency concept in vehicles. Did the toxic properties of fossil fuel mutate into clean energy? Did the Saudis become our best friends and neighbors? Did oil spills suddenly evaporate? Did petroleum based products begin to miraculously disintegrate? Give me a break! Stupid Americans were the enablers for big oil and the auto industry.

I've been doing some reading about "hemp." Totally renewable. Will gorw anywhere. Grows like a weed (because it is one.) Will not be coveted for food because it is not edible. I guess that this will not happen because it will not afford anyone a private jet.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,955 posts, read 2,999,195 times
Reputation: 2411
I can't see how anyone would think it was a good idea to fly to Washington on a luxury private jet to beg for handouts from taxpayers. I don't see these whiners volunteering to give up their 7 figure salaries and bonuses to keep their companies afloat. Sell the damn jets and let them swim with the sharks. Who knows? The sharks might trim the fat off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
I've been doing some reading about "hemp." Totally renewable. Will gorw anywhere. Grows like a weed (because it is one.) Will not be coveted for food because it is not edible. I guess that this will not happen because it will not afford anyone a private jet.
Hemp seed is edible. I see it listed as an ingredient in some of those health food cereals.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:17 AM
 
Location: The Coldest Place
994 posts, read 1,349,350 times
Reputation: 202
I would only be for this bailout (and actually prefer more of smaller kick start bailout before we really open our wallet), if they UNEQUIVOCALLY commit to very specific requirements. They have made a mockery and a career out of getting around future MPG regulations. Pete's sake, GM just released a new Hummer! I want commitments to research. Real research, and not creating dozens of different models targeted at upper end buyers.

This is is a failure on all levels - management, union, product development, and on, and on.

There needs to be a drastic rethink of the way they do things.

If they wont commit, then let them fall. Else we just end up stuck in the same cycle again. Someone will step in with some different ideas. It won't be easy, but I have faith in American ingenuity and resourcefulness.

And you know what? Those of you who are making this about political affiliations again - Can we just once have a thread about something that impacts our country without the finger pointing? Is is that hard to bring yourselves to do?

Last edited by Guero; 11-20-2008 at 03:28 AM..
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:25 AM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,304,116 times
Reputation: 523
The sad facts are that the Big-3 cannot survive long-term unless certain changes occur:

a) Top management has to go

b) Strict CAFE fuel efficiency standards have to be accepted in return for a bailout

c) The UAW contracts have to be renegotiated, or don't bother with a bailout - because they will eventually go belly-up. The Big-3 have a significant cost-disadvantage when compared to the foreign implants building cars here in the U.S. - and that is a big part of the reason why they cannot compete.

In 2010 GM will shift it's retiree health care benefit costs to the union - per an agreement last year - but more than that is required. Things like the work-pool - where workers can get 95% of their pay for 2-years during layoffs either have to be eliminated - or the companies should go thru a Chapter 11 bankruptcy - with Governenment support and guarantees to make the public willing to continue to buy their cars.

Sounds harsh, but even during the 70's, I was in awe at how much the UAW was demanding from the car companies - they just went way overboard - and should come back down to reality before a chapter 11 filing shreds their contracts to pieces.
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