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View Poll Results: Do You support euthanasia for non-contributing members of society?
Yes 6 8.82%
No 60 88.24%
Undecided 2 2.94%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2008, 08:14 PM
 
64 posts, read 73,868 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihadist View Post
So then you are an admitted obscurantist. I personally prefer to present the truth to people and let such materialistic truths reign supreme instead of creating false systems of religion and law to impose order on humanity. In addition, I can't imagine that spending so many resources to care for the sick and dumb and unwanted infants is the way to promote evolution. That seems counterintuitive.
How can you have the name you have and not believe in systems of law and religion? So, are you just spewing Poo everywhere or are you a jihadist?

Jihad:
The phrase internal Jihad or greater Jihad refers to the efforts of a believer to live their Muslim faith as well as possible.
All religious people want to live their lives in the way that will please their God.
So Muslims make a great effort to live as Allah has instructed them; following the rules of the faith, being devoted to Allah, doing everything they can to help other people.
For most people, living God's way is quite a struggle. God sets high standards, and believers have to fight with their own selfish desires to live up to them, no matter how much they love God.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
608 posts, read 812,493 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihadist View Post
You make a good point. However, religion has been constantly evolving alonside humankind. This asks the question, "what is religion?" If religion is simply a system of basic truths to help explain reality--something that has been constantly progressing, then perhaps we've come to the point of enlightenment in our own recognition of our origins and its dynamic process. Thus, perhaps we should move to adopt evolution as our new "religion." A religion decidedly more logical than its predecessors, but not yet fully elucidated on humanity. If evolution therefore, becomes our religion, should we not follow it where it directs us and therefore order human society around it?
Yes, religion has certainly evolved throughout history, but the basic pattern of human behavior that I´ve explained earlier was simply started by the formation of religion and law. Human behavior hasn´t generally changed as dynamicly as the concept of religion itself. We live in a period of time where there is a far larger percentage of non religious people alive in the world than ever before, yet our species continues to progress towards a path of thought that is far more ¨mercifull¨ to the weak and disadvantaged of humanity. In reality this tells me that mankind isn´t enslaved to any particular dogma, but that we chose to progress on our own terms, started by our earliest ancestors, regardless of our religious views. The choice to be mercifull, even at our own expense, and without worry of offending a higher power, proves to me that this continued way of viewing the value of life is indeed evolutionary. As far as religion is concerned, whether people choose to admit it or not, in our world today, religion does what we tell it to do.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:18 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,888 posts, read 20,177,151 times
Reputation: 35917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihadist View Post
Maybe if I knew my parents I wouldn't. However, instead of simply euthanizing unwanted infants, we could simply eliminate the family structure as it currently is. Marx saw this as possible solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihadist View Post
I didn't say that...you're reading implication into my post that were not originally intended. Of course for the sake of intellectual legitimacy, I wouldn't say that "because they're not my parents, they must not be useful." It was more a stab at my own non-existent folks. Lighten up.
You may wish to reread your post above to see that I am not going by anything but what you stated. It's really hard to lighten up when you are discussing euthanizing the elderly parents of others because you deem them useless and when you admitted in your above post that you would probably not support it for your own parents had you known them.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:19 PM
 
55 posts, read 60,901 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
That's not really an argument about evolution. That's a slippery slope argument along the lines of Plato's "noble lie," or maybe Leo Strauss's revision of that same idea. You're saying that regardless of whether or not evolution is true, you'd rather not have people believe it to be true, because you think that would set in motion is slippery slope in which all 'morality' is abandoned.

That would also imply that the only thing keeping you from a killing spree is a nonbelief in evolution, which strikes me as (hopefully!) not the case. But if it is not the case, then why not? Wouldn't that imply some sort of embankment on your slippery slope?
You really need to go back and read the posts. You have completely misunderstood the argument. Hint: I'm not arguing against evolution in any way. BTW, this is not a slippery slope argument, and even if it was, not all ss arguments are fallacies.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:22 PM
 
55 posts, read 60,901 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by myusername2008 View Post
How can you have the name you have and not believe in systems of law and religion? So, are you just spewing Poo everywhere or are you a jihadist?

Jihad:
The phrase internal Jihad or greater Jihad refers to the efforts of a believer to live their Muslim faith as well as possible.
All religious people want to live their lives in the way that will please their God.
So Muslims make a great effort to live as Allah has instructed them; following the rules of the faith, being devoted to Allah, doing everything they can to help other people.
For most people, living God's way is quite a struggle. God sets high standards, and believers have to fight with their own selfish desires to live up to them, no matter how much they love God.
How am I contradicting myself. I said that we shouldn't be deliberately setting up false laws. It just so happens that I believe in a system of laws that is based in the natural world. I didn't say moral code or God has anything to do with it. No where is there a contradiction there.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:25 PM
 
5,767 posts, read 10,306,134 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
You have completely misunderstood the argument.
No; I think I understand it quite well.

Quote:
Hint: I'm not arguing against evolution in any way.
You're making a sarcastic argument "in favor" of a proposition, strawmanning it in the process, then trying to depict the argument as so absurd that it must be rejected by implication.

Evolution is merely a process, in the same way that calcification or condensation or oxidization are processes.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:26 PM
 
55 posts, read 60,901 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
You may wish to reread your post above to see that I am not going by anything but what you stated. It's really hard to lighten up when you are discussing euthanizing the elderly parents of others because you deem them useless and when you admitted in your above post that you would probably not support it for your own parents had you known them.
Just because you don't have a sense of humor doesn't mean that I should follow. I still believe all older people should be euthanized...there is my straightforward answer. They serve no communal purpose anymore.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:28 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,478 posts, read 13,868,789 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihadist View Post
Just because you don't have a sense of humor doesn't mean that I should follow. I still believe all older people should be euthanized...there is my straightforward answer. They serve no communal purpose anymore.
What do you mean by older? Do you mean, what...70's, 80's, 90's? And by communal purpose, what do you mean? By that respect, then all children before the age of, probably 14 should be killed because they have no input. I don't understand what you're trying to get at here.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:29 PM
 
55 posts, read 60,901 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
No; I think I understand it quite well.



You're making a sarcastic argument "in favor" of a proposition, strawmanning it in the process, then trying to depict the argument as so absurd that it must be rejected by implication.

Evolution is merely a process, in the same way that calcification or condensation or oxidization are processes.
Condensation happens, therefore there will be rainy days, therefore I'll feel sad some days. And no, I'm not using any discounting arguments....are you sure you understand?
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,888 posts, read 20,177,151 times
Reputation: 35917
[quote=Jihadist;6234395]Just because you don't have a sense of humor doesn't mean that I should follow. I still believe all older people should be euthanized...there is my straightforward answer. They serve no communal purpose anymore.[/quote]
Unless it is your own parents ...
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