U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-28-2008, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,246,493 times
Reputation: 908

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibit612 View Post
jojahn - from one survivor to another, best wishes!

I am sorry for your parents' plight. I don't think that even with some form of universal/nationalized healthcare that issues of catastrophic magnitude will be addressed. There just isn't enough money to go around for everyone to be supported completely at the tune of a million dollars. We can only plan for the worst, and hope for the best.

The company I used to work for had 18 hemophiliacs being managed at $1 million each year for the Factor VIII drugs. I'm sure there are more hemophiliacs out there but not everyone can be covered without limits even by a national healthcare/insurance system. There are 5 million morbidly obese individuals in the US, all wanting and waiting for funding of gastric bypass surgery at $30K each, that is excluding the cost of bringing down their weight to a level that is safe to operate on, and excluding the cost of any complications or inpatient admits post-op, or PT and OT sessions during and after. That also excludes all the tummy tucks or removal of excess skin elsewhere that is covered by private insurance, following the surgery. Fertility treatments result in multiple births, almost all are preemies. The cost of each NICU baby exceeds a $100K each, and so forth and so on. I just don't know at what point increasing taxes for everyone will cover everyone, or if someone will make a decision on what is life threatening and should be treated first. It just is a very thin line.

TM had responded to my post and said that if her $800 premium went up to $900 that UHI is not really working. I'm sure that for someone whose premium went down from $1200 to $900, it is. That alone shows me that no matter what is done, there will always be people for whom it won't be acceptable. Somebody has to pay more for somebody to pay less. The people who will have to pay more for others to pay less are not going to be happy. TM has already illustrated that in her response.
900, 1200 .. 800..

What has to happen is that payment into a coverage plan needs to be knocked down so that the middle income family can afford it period. .. BTW.. my 800 paid previously was NOT a family plan..

Also.. the intent behind a UHI is to a) get the costs lowered so that it is affordable. AND perhaps the best way to make it affordable is that everyone pay in on a sliding income scale.. which actualyl would be done anyone as it would be a contribution through payroll taxes similar to our tax system.. and I wouldn't be opposed to a cap on it so to avoid someone very wealthy paying ALOT more than it would have cost him/her without it.

B) with such a large pool of people there are bound to be those, like my husband who hardly every go to a Dr. NOT using it.. and yes, even younger people who would be paying into it with their taxes and not using it as much.. YES<.. they would be paying.. BUT should they find themselves in a position where they need access to medicine, etc.. they would be covered.. adn it will always be there for them when and if they need it.

c) Prices for ..say a tylenol .. wouldn't have to be inflated 1000% to make up for all those tylenols that the hospital is NOT getting paid for.. becaues, unless an illegal immigrant walks through those doors (which currently accounts for 21% of those 47 million uninsured) it will get paid.. that leaves 79% of people currently uninsured and potentially unable to pay their hospital bill from ..well not paying.

d) again.. cost reduction through mainstreaming to a one payer system.. yes.. there will be administrative costs.. as there is in anything.. but Dr's won't have to hire as many people to do the work with aone payer system..

Otehr things would need to be addressed to drive down costs. US would have to focus on preventative care and tackling obesity through comprehensive prevention etc..

The purpse of a UHI is to drive down health costs. a UHI does not require a "premium" be paid, but contribution through taxes. And copays should also be applied to Dr. visits and prescriptions to supplement ( I wouldn't be opposed to that).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-28-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,116,721 times
Reputation: 4899
I wonder what will happen to those who:

1) Are part of the Underground economy - those who get paid "off the books" and usually do not file tax returns

2) Are not subject to paying income tax due to the source of income or their other current financial status

The two groups, not paying taxes (federal) - will they be covered by a UHI?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2008, 08:17 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,705,396 times
Reputation: 1251
TM:

What you ask for is a mathematical impossibility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,246,493 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I wonder what will happen to those who:

1) Are part of the Underground economy - those who get paid "off the books" and usually do not file tax returns

2) Are not subject to paying income tax due to the source of income or their other current financial status

The two groups, not paying taxes (federal) - will they be covered by a UHI?

Well... for one.. considering that "underground" is exactly that...underground.. They might not risk exposure to the IRS by coming forward.. since it's illegal to not pay taxes and it's "underground" for precisely that reason

Those that do not pay taxes are not in large numbers GD.. Where are your numbers to prove of such a "large" underground group and group that doesn't pay to make any significant dent in anything??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,246,493 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
TM:

What you ask for is a mathematical impossibility.

Prove it's mathematically impossible.. saying it is so doesnt make it so!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,116,721 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Well... for one.. considering that "underground" is exactly that...underground.. They might not risk exposure to the IRS by coming forward.. since it's illegal to not pay taxes and it's "underground" for precisely that reason

Those that do not pay taxes are not in large numbers GD.. Where are your numbers to prove of such a "large" underground group and group that doesn't pay to make any significant dent in anything??
Remember - not everyone is subject to paying taxes TM -

And the underground economy is quite large - look it up if you are interested.

These issues aside - would those who do not pay taxes (for whatever reason) be covered under a UHI?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,553,520 times
Reputation: 5005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Remember - not everyone is subject to paying taxes TM -

And the underground economy is quite large - look it up if you are interested.

These issues aside - would those who do not pay taxes (for whatever reason) be covered under a UHI?
I think everyone who needs medical attention under TM's proposed UHI should present a tax return!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,246,493 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibit612 View Post
I think everyone who needs medical attention under TM's proposed UHI should present a tax return!

Yeah.. and those that don't pay taxes because they don't make enough money are already recieving medical attention under medicaid.

If you want to live 'underground' and disobey American laws and NOT pay taxes..then you should not be privy to what those taxes we all pay get you. Similar to an illegal alien.

stop living "underground" and pay taxes like the rest of the us!!

People who evade taxes are not of great character, IMO.


And I couldn't find any of these numbers GD.. because there are no numbers.. they are underground for a reason and if they were counted, then they wouldn't be underground. Again.. there are more people that pay taxes than don't!! If they don't legally pay taxes..then they don't legally pay taxes and are not doing anything wrong.

and perhaps the tax for health benefits would be exempt fromt he legal exemptions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,647 posts, read 19,762,695 times
Reputation: 22962
"Yeah.. and those that don't pay taxes because they don't make enough money are already recieving medical attention under medicaid."

You want to back that one up??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2008, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,116,721 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
"Yeah.. and those that don't pay taxes because they don't make enough money are already recieving medical attention under medicaid."

You want to back that one up??
Good question for her - she does not realize that there are millions living on "TAX FREE" incomes -
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top