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Excuse TM but, those in the country illegally very well exist - and not just on paper. They use our roads, shop in our stores, attend our schools, get healthcare - just like Americans
They exist because they use our roads, they use oru services.. BUT they should NOT be allowed to have driver's licenses, should not be allowed to collect any form of monetary anything if they dont' exist here legally.. PERIOD. Because if illegals are the excuse you'll use to oppose a UHI for AMERICANS than they are ruining it for those of us that are ehre LEGALLY.
TM - there are MILLIONS of lawful residents in this country (not citizens - RESIDENTS) who lawfully obtain services from the government including social security, medicare, welfare (food stamps etc)
Are you sugessting, and sounds like it, that only AMERICANS can get UHI?
NO GD.. those people WILL get a UHI..I"m not talking about those people.. no where did I say that anyone that collects a gov't welfar check shouldn't get healthcare. Don't perversely twist what I say to fit what you WANT me to have said GD.. I was referring to all those that manipulate the system that live in your "Underground" economy to avoid paying legal taxes. Those that legally do not pay taxes because they are poor, etc.. that is not a problem.
But to all those living "underground".. no..they ahve NO RIGHT to it if they are not going to live by the laws of the land they live in! PERIOD.
Again, what about those here in the United States legally who are not "citizens"? You are saying they should not get a drivers license etc?
Yes.. that's rigth.. Since the tons of illegals you like to bring into the argument against a UHI.. then lets fix that problem. And hey, in some states you can't get a drivers license anymore unless you have a U.S greencard or birth certificate or can prove that you are here legally in the U.S .. PA is oneo f them.. if you look at their requirements for a driver's license, unless you are here legally you can't obtain one.
So, this group should be denied healthcare?
This group already gets free healthcare GD.. they get it NOW.. while people like YOU want to deny the rest of the US CITIZENS a system that would allow them to get healthcare because of the "illegals" you fear will get what they don't pay into. NOthing will change for them.. they'll still walk into a hospital and get treated just like they are now.
Yet, there are many WHO DO NOT HAVE TO PAY TAXES - and the government agrees - yet, you say it is WRONG?
That's rigth.. EVERYONE Should pay taxes.. unless they are too poor to. Why should I have to pay taxes and someone else shouldn't?
Then, you really do not support UNIVERSAL healtcare, inasmuch as UNIVERSAL means EVERYONE
First.. I can't go to a European country and get their "universal" coverage simply because I'm there. UNIVERSAL for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS of this country.. as far as I'm concerned..if you are living underground you are not living and obeying the laws of the land and are a criminal... and should the IRS catch up with you you will be treated as one. It's tax evasion. And criminals give up many benefits Americans enjoy including right to vote.. etc. OH.. but our criminals in prison already get FREE HEALTHCARE..
aNd let's correct something UHI is NOT FREE Healthcare so lets stop with that bold face lie already.
TM - I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and your responses. You just said that someone in the United States LEGALLY (but is not a citizen) should not get a drivers license.
Do you really mean that? Because - it is what YOU said
First.. I can't go to a European country and get their "universal" coverage simply because I'm there. UNIVERSAL for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS of this country.. as far as I'm concerned..if you are living underground you are not living and obeying the laws of the land and are a criminal... and should the IRS catch up with you you will be treated as one. It's tax evasion. And criminals give up many benefits Americans enjoy including right to vote.. etc. OH.. but our criminals in prison already get FREE HEALTHCARE..
aNd let's correct something UHI is NOT FREE Healthcare so lets stop with that bold face lie already.
The FACT remains TM that many in this country are NOT REQUIRED to pay taxes - and it is allowed by our government. These people are not "underground" - they are very much above ground. They have "TAX FREE" income - its not "tax evasion"
If you are saying that research and and experiences dealing with the system are not worth hearing, I wonder if you would find a college education worthy. If you can't get information from reading I'm not sure where else you get it. I think that the poster brought up many good points, and attacking the person's experience doesn't make them look any less valid. I wonder if you have any experience with the system, because any person who has had a major medical expense knows what a nightmare it is dealing with the insurance companies and the hospitals. The only other reason that I can think for those kinds of attacks is that you work for the industry.
This poster makes her experience appear to be everyone's experience. Analyzing the economics inside the link she is posting is what I expect of her. Anyone can post a link, and counter with another link. In school, you are asked to analyze what you read. Her experience is one-sided. There are always two sides to an argument. Unlike other posters who are FOR a universal system, she is emotional and hysterical. Her presentation affects her credibility...not that her points could not be credible. I have plenty of experience with the industry as I and my family have had multiple surgeries and expensive procedures. I've successfully done battle with hospitals, specialists and insurance companies because I've done my homework. I don't attack posters...I attack their arguments. I use knowledge of the industry to work to my advantage. Even while I worked for 10 years in the banking industry, I knew how insurance worked. I read my documents accordingly.
TM - I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and your responses. You just said that someone in the United States LEGALLY (but is not a citizen) should not get a drivers license.
Do you really mean that? Because - it is what YOU said
No Greatday.. people who are here ILLEGALLY.. should not be able to obtain drivers license. If they are here legally but are NOT citizens.. then they should be allowd a drivers license.
If they are NOT citizens but are working legally and paying US income taxes while they are here.. then they should get UHI as well.. as long as their status remains legal and they pay U.S income taxes.
The FACT remains TM that many in this country are NOT REQUIRED to pay taxes - and it is allowed by our government. These people are not "underground" - they are very much above ground. They have "TAX FREE" income - its not "tax evasion"
Should this group get your UHI?
Nope.. and the law needs to be changed. because Tax FREE is nonsense.. if that is their sole source of income and it's tax free... then it shouldn't be allowed.. why should theres be free and mine not. It's BS!! It's wrong.
Can people really live off "bonds"?? SEriously!! Because that 's the example of "tax free" you b ring up. Did they not have to earn income to make money to buy those bonds?
So out of that you get that healthcare is a right given to us by the U.S. Constitution?
I can't be happy without a house, new car and lots of ice cream, I suppose mamma gubmint should confiscate my neighbors property to make me happy.
There was little healthcare available at the time the Constitution was written.
Doctors were generally educated as such to keep them from being totally idle, and their services were normally only available to the well-to-do or to the slaves living on their plantations. Insurance companies and HMOs are trying to see that tradition continued for their benefit.
I would much rather see my tax dollars spent on universal healthcare than on a vanity war started by a president wannabe trying to compenate for the fact that he never accomplished anything in his life except wasting a lot of Daddy's money. I'd alsoo like to see a few buck of it set aside to prosecute the same P.W. for war crimes.
Nope.. and the law needs to be changed. because Tax FREE is nonsense.. if that is their sole source of income and it's tax free... then it shouldn't be allowed.. why should theres be free and mine not. It's BS!! It's wrong.
Can people really live off "bonds"?? SEriously!! Because that 's the example of "tax free" you b ring up. Did they not have to earn income to make money to buy those bonds?
ABSOLUTELY people can live off Tax Free Bonds TM. ABSOLUTELY
There income should be "tax free" TM simply because they invested in certain investment vehicles, allowed by law, that would provide them with future tax free income. YOU, as an individual, can do the same thing now TM. The fact that you might not have sufficient income to do so right now is not an issue - the issue is - you have the right too.
And while you might think it is "BS" or "wrong", that is only your opinion because they are legal investments authorized by our government (state and federal)
ABSOLUTELY people can live off Tax Free Bonds TM. ABSOLUTELY
There income should be "tax free" TM simply because they invested in certain investment vehicles, allowed by law, that would provide them with future tax free income. YOU, as an individual, can do the same thing now TM. The fact that you might not have sufficient income to do so right now is not an issue - the issue is - you have the right too.
And while you might think it is "BS" or "wrong", that is only your opinion because they are legal investments authorized by our government (state and federal)
Well then GD.. just as those that choose to not pay into SS becuase they legally CAN choose not to, then those that legally choose to live off of tax free bonds and NOT pay taxes in this country should then not have access to a UHI...
They can decide to collect their tax free income and contribute a portion of that income to a UHI Tax or they can elect, because they legally can elect since it's a tax free bond, to NOT..but then they shouldn't be allowed to collect the benefits of something they decide not to pay into.
Whats good for SS in that respect.. should go for a UHI too.
Well then GD.. just as those that choose to not pay into SS becuase they legally CAN choose not to, then those that legally choose to live off of tax free bonds and NOT pay taxes in this country should then not have access to a UHI...
They can decide to collect their tax free income and contribute a portion of that income to a UHI Tax or they can elect, because they legally can elect since it's a tax free bond, to NOT..but then they shouldn't be allowed to collect the benefits of something they decide not to pay into.
Whats good for SS in that respect.. should go for a UHI too.
So, it is your position that someone who made investments that were approved by the GOVERNMENT - who were often ENCOURAGED to invest by the GOVERNMENT should now be PENALIZED BY THAT SAME GOVERNMENT???
Let's see: Investor starts investing - let's say for 20/30 years. Then is told - Sorry Bud but now you can't get health insurance (UHI) because you invested
Somehow I don't think that would pass legal / constitutional muster TM - or, to put it another way - it won't fly.
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