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So, it is your position that someone who made investments that were approved by the GOVERNMENT - who were often ENCOURAGED to invest by the GOVERNMENT should now be PENALIZED BY THAT SAME GOVERNMENT???
Let's see: Investor starts investing - let's say for 20/30 years. Then is told - Sorry Bud but now you can't get health insurance (UHI) because you invested
Somehow I don't think that would pass legal / constitutional muster TM - or, to put it another way - it won't fly.
NO GD.. READ..
They would have a choice.. they can continue to not pay any taxes at all.. including a UHI tax.. OR they can elect to pay a UHI tax so that they can have access to a UHI. No one is saying they HAVE to do that.. they have a choice.
GD.. as most people that live off bonds are wealthy enough to afford their own healthcare.. jsut as those that don't pay SS are wealthy enough not to have to worry about their retirement I'm sure this is a non issue. AND if it is, thenthey can elect to pay a UHI tax.. .NOT the full income tax.. but the UHI portion if they so choose so that they can enjoy a UHI like the rest of the tax paying citizens of this country.
OR.. they can elect to buy private coverage (because I think a supplemental private market will exist or should exist to supplement a UHI.. as in Britian)..
THEy have a CHOICE..
Hmm. and those that make that tax free money off their bonds.. do they get to collect SS.. a system they have NOT paid into? Considering that SS is based somewhat ont he contribution you made to it..did they not choose to diminish they SS earnings because they paid nothing or next to nothing into it? OR.. should we just do away with SS because there are people out there, like those that live tax free, that then collect on SS (oh.. and then there is medicare too once you hit 65) hat aren't paying or contributing with their taxes?
Last edited by TristansMommy; 11-30-2008 at 02:33 PM..
Reason: Thought of another good ponit
Hmm. and those that make that tax free money off their bonds.. do they get to collect SS.. a system they have NOT paid into? Considering that SS is based somewhat ont he contribution you made to it..did they not choose to diminish they SS earnings because they paid nothing or next to nothing into it? OR.. should we just do away with SS because there are people out there, like those that live tax free, that then collect on SS (oh.. and then there is medicare too once you hit 65) hat aren't paying or contributing with their taxes?
Many had other jobs and paid into SS during their carreers -while investing in Tax Free incomes. Again - they paid into SS WHILE investing - something a lot of people do
I know several who are getting Social Security AND tax free incomes from investments
As one who cannot get SS or Medicare, I fully appreciate the responsibility I have for myself
Many had other jobs and paid into SS during their carreers -while investing in Tax Free incomes. Again - they paid into SS WHILE investing - something a lot of people do
I know several who are getting Social Security AND tax free incomes from investments
As one who cannot get SS or Medicare, I fully appreciate the responsibility I have for myself
Well.then.. see they didn't entirely LIVE off of Tax Free investments if they paid into SS during their "careers".
However, once they stopped working their contribution to SS stopped and they reached a point where they weren't adding to what they could later get.
The "older generation" would then collect their SS AND their tax free income and get medicaid. I guess you can say they have to be "grandfathered" in..
Now if someone has tax free bonds they invest in for their retirement AND has spent their life working and paying taxes as well.. then they are covered for a UHI.. After all those retired folks will no longer really be contributing much.. so not really very different.
HOwever, if a UHI is adopted than any future bonds sold would have that stipulation attatched.. the one I mentioned above.. moving forward that is.. and in a scenario like I mentioned..
Again.. these people are wealth enough anyway not to need anything nor really care anyway.. and if they are collecting SS they are NOT living off their bonds entirely.
Well.then.. see they didn't entirely LIVE off of Tax Free investments if they paid into SS during their "careers".
TM - I never suggested anything of the kind
I said that there are those who are now living off of tax free income - they worked all their lives and are now able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. I have met some that use their Social Security checks as their monthly seed money at the casinos
And this statement you made: Again.. these people are wealth enough anyway not to need anything nor really care anyway..
is completely ridiculous IMO - you are making assumptions that you cannot back up with facts. It also is clear that you are JEALOUS of those who have more wealth than you . The statement is totally condesending
Yes TM - there are those that have more than you - sometimes a LOT more. Big deal. Deal with it TM - you are sounding like a whinning little brat
and what sucks about that is the insurance agent is not phased by this situation, but it could mess your whole life up. seems like someone could step in and say hold on, they just got screwed. and yeah the universal health is a good idea for people getting covered who need it, but it also needs to be set up in a way that couldnt be taken advantage of by those who dont pull their weight
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy
Today I'm more for a UHI than I ever was before.
In NY I was paying $856/month for insurance for myself and my son. Husband wasn't covered because we couldn't afford him. It would be over $1,000!!
When I moved I contacted an agent who told me I should sign up with Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield. Me on a guaranteed issue for $333/month and my hubby and son medically underwritten for around $220. Total cost montly around $550. EXCELLENT.
Sent me the application. I cancelled my insurance inNY and had the application so that when I get settled in I could sign up for myself under GUARANTEE issue. Did just that. I GOT REJECTED because I'm "out of their service area!!".. WTF!!! I am SO mad at the agent. I told him my address of where i was moving too and he directed me to them. Asi t was guaranteed issue it was a no brainer.. accept he had me in the WRONG COUNTY.. WRONG PLAN.
I'm dangerously approaching 90 days (on the 15th it will be 90 days) which means I loose coverage for a whole year for my condition!! ONLY insurance that offers a guaranteed issue in my county is BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIED OF NE PA .. but they want to charge me $500/month.. AND I can't enroll as a new member until Jan 1 which means that I will loose my coverage for my pre-existing condition. I can do a "transfer" frommy previous Blue Cross plan to the new one .. oh.. but hten I'd have to pay for Oct, Nov & Dec a check for $1500!! I then have a $1,000 major medical deductable and a $250 Shield deductable.
Why don't i just BEND OVER and lube up!!!
FREE MARKETS my ASS!! I only have 1 CHOICE!!! and extremely expensive RIDICULOUS CHOICE.. BUT if I lived inthe next county over I'd be paying $550/month for a great plan offere by Blue Cross / Blue Shield.. WHY?
I HATE health insurance companies.
I wish they would ALL FAIL and go to hell!!
Bring on a UHI.. .. my health insurance shouldnt' cost me the same or MORE than my rent..
And it shoulnd't equal a mortgage payment either..
I said that there are those who are now living off of tax free income - they worked all their lives and are now able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. I have met some that use their Social Security checks as their monthly seed money at the casinos
And this statement you made: Again.. these people are wealth enough anyway not to need anything nor really care anyway..
is completely ridiculous IMO - you are making assumptions that you cannot back up with facts. It also is clear that you are JEALOUS of those who have more wealth than you . The statement is totally condesending
Yes TM - there are those that have more than you - sometimes a LOT more. Big deal. Deal with it TM - you are sounding like a whinning little brat
LOL. you really are ahoot..
You said that people live off tax free income.. period.. you didn't say NOW they live off of it.
And MONEY is NOT what motivates me GD!! I'm not jealous someone else is wealthy and I'm not.. YOU just like to SAY I am because it seems to make your point stronger..
But let's face it.. someone doesn't pay into SS they obviously aren't worried about income for retirement. People that are wealthy are individuals that, at the end of the month with all their bills and obligations, have enough left over to pour into those extra investments that keep pouring in afterward..
THe average middle class family doesn't make enough ot have such solid investments.. and the investments the DO have to live off of are NOT sufficient enough to maintain expenses and MUST collect SS.
Those that don't need SS who elect NOT to collect it aren't worried about making their medical payments or paying their bills .. obviously.. or they would have never elected out of a system that would guarantee them an income
And lets face it.. people that have enough money to invest in a bond that would allow them to live off of tax free are obviously very comfortable people. THAT is commone sense GD.. not brain surgery..
YOu've proven nothing either in the way of how many people live off bonds and what their financial pictures is like.. but lets face it.. middle income America really doesn't have enough expendable income to invest enough of to really make it so that they could live solely off those investments.
Its funny cause Medicare was a "socialist health care model"... and what do we have now?? Private insurance companies getting into the Medicare act... so much for government run... now its government sponsored and a lot of these Medicare plans just plain suck... its great how the government cannot support Medicare and now is asking companies to do it... that's just great, instead of getting insurance industries to get their act straight, we put them as the leaders of the whole shabang... universal health care? don't make me laugh...
You said that people live off tax free income.. period.. you didn't say NOW they live off of it.
And MONEY is NOT what motivates me GD!! I'm not jealous someone else is wealthy and I'm not.. YOU just like to SAY I am because it seems to make your point stronger..
But let's face it.. someone doesn't pay into SS they obviously aren't worried about income for retirement. People that are wealthy are individuals that, at the end of the month with all their bills and obligations, have enough left over to pour into those extra investments that keep pouring in afterward..
THe average middle class family doesn't make enough ot have such solid investments.. and the investments the DO have to live off of are NOT sufficient enough to maintain expenses and MUST collect SS.
Those that don't need SS who elect NOT to collect it aren't worried about making their medical payments or paying their bills .. obviously.. or they would have never elected out of a system that would guarantee them an income
And lets face it.. people that have enough money to invest in a bond that would allow them to live off of tax free are obviously very comfortable people. THAT is commone sense GD.. not brain surgery..
YOu've proven nothing either in the way of how many people live off bonds and what their financial pictures is like.. but lets face it.. middle income America really doesn't have enough expendable income to invest enough of to really make it so that they could live solely off those investments.
Who are these people you think elected out of SS?? Everyone pays in, unless you are a minister and opt out. And you really think SS provides an 'income'?? Nope, if you haven't put some aside on your own but plan to live on SS you'll be disappointed in how little 'income' it is.
But, according to you, anyone who saves on their own is 'wealthy'?? They may be wealthy or they may just be SMART, or they may be both but your presumption that they are all wealthy is not accurate (as usual). I read an article some time ago (I can't find it now) about a man who worked a minimum wage job all his life, raised a family AND retired a MILLIONAIRE!! He would be one of the smart ones who ended up wealthy in the end. With his low standard of living he can go a long way on a million. Would he get UHI??
We hope to have enough to live on without needing SS (mostly because we don't trust it will be there for us) but that doesn't mean we are wealthy now, we are above average but also SMART...and that can go a long way.
So, I can't figure out if I would get your UHI or not.
Also, a middle income family who is SMART can save plenty. If they can save $5000 per year on a $50,000 income they can invest enough to retire with 80% of their income, excluding SS. That's VERY GOOD!!!
Also, a middle income family who is SMART can save plenty. If they can save $5000 per year on a $50,000 income they can invest enough to retire with 80% of their income, excluding SS. That's VERY GOOD!!!
Since TM thinks a family income of $37,000 reduces that family to being sustained on Ramen Noodles, I doubt she's going to believe you
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yeah somethins gotta give
Everyone pays in, unless you are a minister and opt out. And you really think SS provides an 'income'?? Nope, if you haven't put some aside on your own but plan to live on SS you'll be disappointed in how little 'income' it is. 
