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Old 11-30-2008, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Stuck in NE GA right now
4,585 posts, read 10,487,588 times
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I'm sure I'm in the minority but I find him one of the most horrific people and president.

I'm of Native American ancestry, you might want to read what he did to my ancestors before you start spouting what a wonderful brilliant president he was.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:46 PM
 
563 posts, read 784,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Political Junky View Post
Thoms Jefferson, our third President, principle author of the Declaration of Independence, man of many talents, author, advocate of limited government, freedom of religionm, and founder of the University of Virginia, offers words of wisdom from his writings, regarding government which, in my opinion, have relevance for today!

It is said that in 1962, President Kennedy invited 49 Nobel Prize winners to the White House and he said to them, "this is the most extraordinary collection of talent and human knowledge that has ever gathered in the White House ---- with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone!"

Jefferson in some cases could be called a prophet.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

Very Interesting Quote

In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow *private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

*This is what the Federal Reserve (A Private Banking System, NOT a Government system) is doing today!
Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws. — Mayer Amsched Rothchild, a prominent European banker in the eighteenth century

All true, the man was before his time, was a staunch supporter of freedom and would be purely appalled at what (if he could) see today. Maybe he could, but his wisdom has fell on deaf ears. The federal reserve act passed anyways, giving the power of our money, control of it, into the hands of a few nasty, greedy, inbred sobs-to say the least. They gained control of us anyways, while still allowing the majority to believe they are in control. Simply brilliant though, you have to admire the time and events for this mastermind ideal that has now been set fully in place.

This Federal Reserve Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Wilson) signs this bill the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalized. — Hon. Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr., Dec. 23, 1913
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominate men. I have unwittingly betrayed my country. — President Woodrow Wilson, 1916
In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press... They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers... An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers. — U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917


I care not who makes the law
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:49 PM
 
271 posts, read 523,054 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReturningWest View Post
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I find him one of the most horrific people and president.

I'm of Native American ancestry, you might want to read what he did to my ancestors before you start spouting what a wonderful brilliant president he was.

LOL! Im sad to say this person is from the same area i am lol....


It was as President of the United States that Thomas Jefferson had the greatest impact on the Indian nations of North America. He pursued an Indian policy that had two main ends. First, Jefferson wanted to guarantee the security of the United States and so sought to bind Indian nations to the United States through treaties. The aim of these treaties was to acquire land and facilitate trade, but most importantly to keep them allied with the United States and not with European powers, namely England in Canada and Spain in the regions of Florida, the Gulf Coast and lands west of the Mississippi River.
Secondly, Jefferson used the networks created by the treaties to further the program of gradual "civilization." His Federalists predecessors had begun this program, but it was completely in keeping with Jefferson's Enlightenment thinking. Through treaties and commerce, Jefferson hoped to continue to get Native Americans to adopt European agricultural practices, shift to a sedentary way of life, and free up hunting grounds for further white settlement.
The desire for land raised the stakes of the "civilization program." Jefferson told his agents never to coerce Indian nations to sell lands. The lands were theirs as long as they wished, but he hoped to accelerate the process. In a letter to William Henry Harrison, written as the diplomatic crisis leading to the Louisiana Purchase unfolded, Jefferson suggested that if the various Indian nations could be encouraged to purchase goods on credit, they would likely fall into debt, which they could relieve through the sale of lands to the government. The "civilization program" would thus aid the Indians in accordance with Enlightenment principles and at the same time further white interests.
American Indian peoples were divided as to how to respond to Jefferson's policies. The Shawnee chief Black Hoof embraced the "civilization program," and he and many Shawnee settled within the state of Ohio and lived as farmers, while the Shawnee war leader Tecumseh took a different course and led the formation of a pan-Indian resistance movement against the United States government in the years prior to the War of 1812. Some of the Indian nations in the South also accepted the "civilization program" and eventually became known as the "Five Civilized Tribes." Many in the Creek and Cherokee nations built towns and plantations, and some individuals held African American slaves just as their white neighbors. Yet many southern Indians remained skeptical of "civilization" and joined Tecumseh's movement. Among the Creeks, a distinct anti-white resistance movement called the Red Sticks rose against the United States and the Creek nation itself during the War of 1812.





I see nothing wrong there.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:54 PM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,256,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingOfSouthDakota View Post
LOL! He didnt do alot of work? wow,just wow....I cant say what i want because then ill get another infraction!
Say whatever you want - I could really care less.

Fact is he was a slave-owner - yet preached that men should keep the bounty of their labors - unless of course you were a slave...

If you can't see the total hypocrisy in his quote - I don't know what to say...

I agree he did a lot of great things for this country, and I admire him overall, but at least be big enough to admit he was a totally wrong about the quote above.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:56 PM
 
271 posts, read 523,054 times
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The man was a founding member of our country! I say he did alot of work.Most men back then did own slaves hell who dont want free labor.
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:01 PM
 
Location: The Planet Mars
2,150 posts, read 2,256,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingOfSouthDakota View Post
The man was a founding member of our country! I say he did alot of work.Most men back then did own slaves hell who dont want free labor.
No one is saying he didn't do a lot of work...

Can't you even read???

Or do you think you just have to repetitively misrepresent what others say to win an arguement?
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
6,076 posts, read 10,744,604 times
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Thumbs up Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
Originally Posted by HubbleRules View Post
Some of his quotes are timeless, some don't translate very well into our time, some are a tad hypocritical...

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

I mean, after all, he was a slave owner... didn't he take from others that are willing to work???
Yes he was a slave owner, but he was also an Abolitionist. And don't forget that he was the first slave owner to let his slaves to make money from the nails they use to make and extra crops they grew at Monticello his home in Virginia. Go see it if you ever get a chance, its beautiful.

Oh, and when he died at Monticello (the same day his best friend John Adams did on 4 July), Thomas Jefferson was all but broke.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: PA
5,514 posts, read 4,817,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReturningWest View Post
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I find him one of the most horrific people and president.

I'm of Native American ancestry, you might want to read what he did to my ancestors before you start spouting what a wonderful brilliant president he was.

Ok enough already, I find it funny how indians are somehow not guility of anything. Before white people landed you killed, raped and murdered other tribes and other villages. Please do not tell me all indians were innocent people and not savages as well.
Jefferson did not kill all the indians and he didnt single them out.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
6,076 posts, read 10,744,604 times
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No you can't blame everything on Jefferson, but he was a good man.

The Native Americans that lived here long before White man, were down trodded by White Man since the first time we showed up here. And what they (Native Americans) did to each other is nothing compared to what we did to our own since the dawn of English times. They would only fight when pushed into it. Besides, how do we know what they did before we got here? Most of those stories were made-up by people who called them savages, "the so called Christians" that is. They just didn't want to try and understand them and thier way of life, they wanted to turn them all into so called (Christians). Then kill them off!
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:09 AM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,414 posts, read 18,294,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeabeeBolt View Post
No you can't blame everything on Jefferson, but he was a good man.
I find it really interesting that Jeffersonians like to esteem TJ as if he were a god who walked among us yet fail to acknowledge his MAJOR character and morality flaws.

He was a hypocrite.

1) A large slaveholder writing at length about the "freedoms of man" who (unlike many of his position and social standing at the time) did not free his slaves upon his death.

2) Kept a mistress who was his slave (his property) and fathered several children by her (DNA results have proven this to be fact)

3) Broke treaties with Native American nations whenever it suited American interests
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