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Old 12-12-2008, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,027,692 times
Reputation: 3936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired View Post
Keep in mind that we are all out here seriously tightening our belts with declining home equities, inability to sell our products, fighting higher local taxes with no help from our government. I once had my son-in-law brag that he made four times my former professional salary in the new car sales business with only a high school education. I didn't say a thing because I knew that I made 1/4 his salary 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year for thirty years. He is now laid off. The lesson here is that nothing is free, and if it looks free, you had better take a second look. Things are getting really tough and not just in Michigan.
You are right...the get rich quick bunch goes broke the fastest imo.Belt tightening is going to be a way of life for many of us in the next few years (I don't know how much tighter I can get mine without giving up electricity,food and shelter)and I personally see no quick nor easy answers.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:43 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,450,300 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
.....
Just a snippet to cut the outrageous nonsense that autoworkers make $70.00 and hour or a boatload more than the foreign car workers in the south.

Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour? Not Really, New Republic: Debunking The Myth Of The Exceedingly Well Paid U.S. Autoworker - CBS News

If you're right then the autoworkers should have agreed to make just what the autoworkers in the south make. Why not if they already do?

The problem was that the Detroit union workers would not accept wages like those working in the south -- but why not? Otherwise they could have said "yes we're fine with that because there is already so little difference".
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:49 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,076,274 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
It's get so irritating to hear the ignorance that it's the unions fault and if we just force them into making $10.00 a hour then all will be well.
One of the Senators made the point last night that the unions are the ONLY entity in the entire automotive industry being asked to make suicidal concessions at this moment right now. The union broke their own contracts and made concessions twice within the last two years, they agreed to a two tier wage system which guarantees new employees will never make what the older employees made. They agreed in October to wage decreases to help bring their labor costs down to the level of foreign auto companies wages for American workers. They took BILLIONS of liability off the books by assuming responsibility for health care and retirement operations.
No dealers, white collar workers, parts supplier, CEO, CFO, CIO, no one has been asked to give up a percentage of what the workers are asked to give up yet many of us secretly gloat because those people who didn't go to college now can't afford to live in my zip code and I now get to look down on them.
Americans have to produce something it's the backbone of this economy and this country, the textile business, the steel industries, the clothing manufacturing business have all been decimated and sent over seas, yet we believe that people who sit in an office with a corporate job can float the economy, because a person did not or could not go to college does not mean that they should be regulated to sub standard living and minimum wage jobs as societal punishment, although automotive workers may not have gone to college look at the vast amount of training and certifications many have to achieve in order to do that job in the factory, just because they work in the factories doesn't make them stupid or unintelligent.
So we put millions of people out of work with no other industry offering a decent living wage, everybody than goes back to college gets a degree in your field and floods it, are you happy then, now that your wages and field is stagnant?
The stores, restaurants, doctors, dentists, independent business people all see their business decline, some even going out of business, why? because some republican Senators from the south want to solidify the foreign autos companies plants in their district and kill the union all in one throw and some of the so called college educated folk bite off their own noses in spite of their faces saying things will rebound.
What they don't say is that they really could care less if it rebounds or not as long as it doesn't affect their livelihood, welcome to the new America where you step on the back of your fellow man because his career path was different then yours.
It was said last night that if this senate was sitting during the world wars we would have lost those wars due to the selfish posturing of those senators more concerned with their neck of the woods and their business interests instead of the good of the country, I agree, as well as the selfish nature of Americans caught up in the ignorance of class warfare.


Just a snippet to cut the outrageous nonsense that autoworkers make $70.00 and hour or a boatload more than the foreign car workers in the south.

Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour? Not Really, New Republic: Debunking The Myth Of The Exceedingly Well Paid U.S. Autoworker - CBS News
Great post and true!!!

I can't believe that there are still people, who aren't politicians or Multi-millionaires, that think the economy will rebound and become healthy if everyone is making minimum wage!!!! How grossly stupid!

Do they really want this country to qualify for Third World status with only the incredibly wealthy and the extremely poor???

Do they realize where THEY will be??


Funny how the billion dollar bail out of failed banking institutions and their failed CEOs gets approval and a bail out that may help the average American doesn't pass!

It's the continuing bush War on America.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:54 AM
 
4,829 posts, read 7,725,021 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
Great post and true!!!

I can't believe that there are still people, who aren't politicians or Multi-millionaires, that think the economy will rebound and become healthy if everyone is making minimum wage!!!! How grossly stupid!

Do they really want this country to qualify for Third World status with only the incredibly wealthy and the extremely poor???

Do they realize where THEY will be??


Funny how the billion dollar bail out of failed banking institutions and their failed CEOs gets approval and a bail out that may help the average American doesn't pass!


It's the continuing bush War on America.
The GOP is so out of touch.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:56 AM
 
4,829 posts, read 7,725,021 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
U.S. Senators killed an effort to rescue Detroit automakers Thursday night after a last-ditch attempt to renegotiate the deal died.

The package was doomed on a 52-35 procedural vote, well short of the 60 votes needed to bring the bill to the floor for passage.

ABC News: Bid to Save GM, Chrysler Loans Dies in Senate
U.S republican senators killed the deal.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:57 AM
 
3,255 posts, read 5,063,749 times
Reputation: 547
Why do workers making 10 dollars an hour, basically starving, help to bring down workers making 20 dollars an hour, while at the same time support the lifestyles of those such as football stars, movie stars, bank executives, CEOs, etc? If the car industry is going to be allowed to drop the medical and retirement coverage that its employees paid for in delayed wages (that is how it works), then the American people are allowing the companies to be thieves. As for me, I think I want my wages up front from now on, before I do any work, or at least hour by hour. I am no longer going to trust an employer who promises to pay me for work done and then is allowed to walk away without doing so. If I invested in the stock market and lost, that is how it goes, it is a gamble, but if I give an employer 40 hours of my life with her promise to pay me for the work I do in those forty hours, and she closes up shop and does not pay me, she is a thief and should be put in jail.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:01 AM
 
3,255 posts, read 5,063,749 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
If you're right then the autoworkers should have agreed to make just what the autoworkers in the south make. Why not if they already do?

The problem was that the Detroit union workers would not accept wages like those working in the south -- but why not? Otherwise they could have said "yes we're fine with that because there is already so little difference".
Maybe because the Detroit cost of living is nothing like the backwoods of the south with taxes, heating bills, real estate, etc. What is so hard to understand that you cannot live on the same money in all locations the same way? What I think is that we want fancy cars made on the backs of workers we are not willing to pay. If you can't afford the car made by a good American worker making a decent wage, then maybe you should be getting a better job, not taking money out of their pockets?
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:12 AM
 
15,440 posts, read 21,235,941 times
Reputation: 28675
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
You are right...the get rich quick bunch goes broke the fastest imo.Belt tightening is going to be a way of life for many of us in the next few years (I don't know how much tighter I can get mine without giving up electricity,food and shelter)and I personally see no quick nor easy answers.
You and me both. Our local lunatics significantly raised property taxes just as the economy was tanking. This will be a long and sad learning curve for most Americans. Me included. If it gets worse, and I expect it will, I have only the Great Depression experience related to me by my Dad who took from that experience a fear of owning anything and consequently never did.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,004 posts, read 7,842,437 times
Reputation: 5695
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeannwho View Post
Maybe because the Detroit cost of living is nothing like the backwoods of the south with taxes, heating bills, real estate, etc. What is so hard to understand that you cannot live on the same money in all locations the same way? What I think is that we want fancy cars made on the backs of workers we are not willing to pay. If you can't afford the car made by a good American worker making a decent wage, then maybe you should be getting a better job, not taking money out of their pockets?
funny. I see hundreds of actual brick homes in Detriot selling for less than $10,000. Union greed and poor management lead to the demize of GM. Continuing to subsidize an unprofitable industry is essentially stealing money from everyone else (who could use that money to create different jobs) and literally lighting it on fire.

Personally, I will boycott any company I know that receives any kind of governmet bail out, even if it puts my fellow American out of work. I hope others will do the same.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,494 posts, read 7,458,642 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexianPatriot View Post
Personally, I will boycott any company I know that receives any kind of governmet bail out, even if it puts my fellow American out of work. I hope others will do the same.
I would personally claim squatters' rights on your front lawn then....
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