Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If someone targets me for a specific reason (being white, whatver) and beats me within inches of my life, why would that be a bigger deal than if someone just snapped and I happened to be the person they snapped on and they beat me withing inches of my life? IT SHOULD NOT MATTER. The result was the same. Punish the crime the same.
Your argument is fallacious.
Unless, of course, you think that the definitions of manslaughter and first degree murder should be revoked, and their respective sentences be brought in line with each other. Because, after all, basing a punishment on whether or not there was premeditation is "thought policing."
A hate crime speaks to special circumstance, and there is plenty of legal precedence for establishing special circumstances in prosecuting a violent crime. There's nothing discriminatory about it.
I read it first in a foreign newspaper and some comments were like....I hope the people who did this will be punished the same way as it would have been a hetero sexual and I agree with these statements.
Punished to the fullest of the law and if they are illegals than have them serve the time in their own country.
A top official in Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick’s administration is accused of sexually assaulting a boy in the steam room of a Florida resort and has been placed on unpaid leave.
Carl Stanley McGee, the assistant secretary for policy and planning, was arrested Dec. 28 after the assault at the Gasparilla Inn and Club in Boca Grande.
McGee, 38, met the boy, who is between 12 and 16 years old, in a bathroom at the resort a day earlier where they engaged in small talk. The boy ran into McGee again the next day in the resort’s steam room. McGee sat next to him, removed his towel, rubbed the boy’s back and shoulders and performed oral sex on him.
McGee was freed on $300,000 bond on Dec. 30 and is to be arraigned Monday on a charge of sexual assault on a victim over 12 using physical force.
Should this be used to advocate that ALL homosexuals are child molsters or rapists? of course not.
As a black person and a Christian DON'T attempt to portray ALL people like me as homophobic, approving of violence against homosexuals or approving of rape. STOP sensationalizing this woman's trauma to push an agenda.
The only human thing all people should be doing is wishing her a speedy recovery, privacy, and providing any useful information.
Stop acting like some heterosexual underworld, or able minded straight people had anything to do or approved of this violent incident.
Unless, of course, you think that the definitions of manslaughter and first degree murder should be revoked, and their respective sentences be brought in line with each other. Because, after all, basing a punishment on whether or not there was premeditation is "thought policing."
A hate crime speaks to special circumstance, and there is plenty of legal precedence for establishing special circumstances in prosecuting a violent crime. There's nothing discriminatory about it.
There is a lot more that seperates first degree murder and manslaughter than whether or not the criminal hated the victim. Actually their "hate" is only taken into account if a group that is favored with special protections through hate crime legislation is the victim in a crime.
Shouldn't wife beaters get charged with hate crimes because they hate women and think they are subhuman and deserve to be beaten? Doesn't happen. Why? Because the group isn't specific enough. Hate laws draw up lines based on being non white or homo/bisexual. It is not an evenly applied concept and is very flawed.
No, there are clearly categories of crimes; what I am saying and I thought pretty clearly but perhaps not; rape is rape and should be prosecuted; murder is murder and should be prosecuted AND when rape or murder, to name but two, are perpetrated on/targeted on specific groups of people because of who these specific groups of people are, then they should be prosecuted for that crime itself and the act of doing that crime because that 'group' is hated...thus, there are two serious crimes to be prosecuted for: rape and hate/ murder and hate....
I think to make the statement of any crime perpetrated on another human being is a hate crime is too general: someone kills someone accidently, someone kills someone protecting themselves, someone kills someone because of an act of passion; I don't think that is the same as a specific hate crime.
There are many shades of gray with many cases; that were the causes, the extenuating circumstances, etc....however, to deliberately rape or murder someone because of 'who they are religious-wise, sexual orientation, color, nationality, that's deliberate, premeditated and horrific.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,016,954 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73
So if a gang of white youth were to do the exact same crime to a white, straight female, should it be prosecuted as a lesser crime as sexual orientation, race, etc was not a motivating factor in the crime? This is what troubles me most about so-called hate crimes - any crime perpetuated against another human being is a hate crime not just those committed against minorities or gays.
Let me add to this ... What if the victim was a black heterosexual female who was gang raped by a bunch of black men? What about a white heterosexual female gang raped by black men because she was white?
Doesn't all of these examples demonstrate HATE? Why should the exact same crime be considered less if the victim was not considered a protected class or if race was not a motivation in the crime?
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,016,954 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple
No, there are clearly categories of crimes; what I am saying and I thought pretty clearly but perhaps not; rape is rape and should be prosecuted; murder is murder and should be prosecuted AND when rape or murder, to name but two, are perpetrated on/targeted on specific groups of people because of who these specific groups of people are, then they should be prosecuted for that crime itself and the act of doing that crime because that 'group' is hated...thus, there are two serious crimes to be prosecuted for: rape and hate/ murder and hate....
I think to make the statement of any crime perpetrated on another human being is a hate crime is too general: someone kills someone accidently, someone kills someone protecting themselves, someone kills someone because of an act of passion; I don't think that is the same as a specific hate crime.
There are many shades of gray with many cases; that were the causes, the extenuating circumstances, etc....however, to deliberately rape or murder someone because of 'who they are religious-wise, sexual orientation, color, nationality, that's deliberate, premeditated and horrific.
Of course some murders are accidential ... that's why we have premeditated murder for those that aren't
There is a lot more that seperates first degree murder and manslaughter than whether or not the criminal hated the victim. Actually their "hate" is only taken into account if a group that is favored with special protections through hate crime legislation is the victim in a crime.
No, their "hate" isn't taken into account. The circumstances leading to the crime, however, are.
Hate crime legislation isn't about making a victim "more special" than another; it's about properly prosecuting the law. Yes, the bar-fight victim deserves the same justice as the gay-bashing victim; that's not the point. The point is that the gay-bashing victim wouldn't be a victim if he or she wasn't gay. Motive and/or premeditation are directly tied to that notion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang
Shouldn't wife beaters get charged with hate crimes because they hate women and think they are subhuman and deserve to be beaten? Doesn't happen. Why? Because the group isn't specific enough.
Um, yes it does. Domestic assault and battery crimes have their own section of laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang
Hate laws draw up lines based on being non white or homo/bisexual. It is not an evenly applied concept and is very flawed.
You are right. That doesn't, however, mean that it should be done away with. That is a logical fallacy.
No, there are clearly categories of crimes; what I am saying and I thought pretty clearly but perhaps not; rape is rape and should be prosecuted; murder is murder and should be prosecuted AND when rape or murder, to name but two, are perpetrated on/targeted on specific groups of people because of who these specific groups of people are, then they should be prosecuted for that crime itself and the act of doing that crime because that 'group' is hated...thus, there are two serious crimes to be prosecuted for: rape and hate/ murder and hate....
Mkay. So if I kill you, but don't hate you (or I could hate you so long as you are not part of a specially protected group), its not as bad as if I both hate you AND you are part of a specially protected group.
Yes, the bar-fight victim deserves the same justice as the gay-bashing victim; that's not the point. The point is that the gay-bashing victim wouldn't be a victim if he or she wasn't gay. Motive and/or premeditation are directly tied to that notion.
And the bar fight victim wouldn't be a victim if they weren't at a bar.
People have various reasons for picking a target for their hate and violence. I do not see how being part a specific group should elevate the charges over someone who is not part of a specific group. Are we not all humans?
Thats okay though. I am used to people who argue in one breath that everybody is the same and deserves equal rights/protections on one topic, then turn around on another topic and all of the sudden the equal rights/protections go out the window to accomodate special interests.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
