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View Poll Results: Would you legalize gay marriage??
Yes 80 62.02%
No 49 37.98%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
25,163 posts, read 14,198,894 times
Reputation: 6401
Liberalism always wins in the long run. Freedom and liberty always win in the long run.

People can squawk all they want about gays and "protecting marriage", etc., but when 2/3 of adults under 30 are in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage, it's just a matter of time before most or all of the laws prohibiting it are abolished.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,483 posts, read 9,134,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Actually braderjoe's puzzlement cannot be so easily explained away by calling into the argument the issue of 'sects'. It is often within a single sect that individual churches move away from their established "Book of Disciplines" and administer sacraments and salvation to the LGBT community. This can split congregations when all are not onboard with the change in direction. In most cities' churches the issue of gay marriage hasn't come up because marriage is only legal in a few jurisdicions but it probably will if and when the state legislatures that govern those parishes or communities grapple with the issue.

I don't follow the argument that because there is a separation of Church and State that government bodies should not and cannot discriminate against gay people. Who said it was a religious thing? The gay lifestyle is a crime against humanity and as such it can be classified as Sodomy. These words have biblical precedents but they are accepted in legal and secular contexts as well. Like it or not the U.S. was founded by Protestant pioneers. The whole separation thing is rather thin. Need I say again that if we are to truly lift the ban on allowing full recognition of the gay lifestyle then it becomes difficult in moral terms to ban it for the remaining lifestyles that one might choose to adopt. Gay people think they are more than ready to say "shut the door after we are inside, we don't like those other people either". I am not convinced. Luckilly its not up to me.

As I said before gay America has a lot bigger issues with itself before it takes on the rest of America about the right to 'marry'. America for its part has huge issues with respect to racism and sexism that are still far from resolved before it gets embroiled in the destabilizing issues of gays and full intergration. Some things that work in Europe but don't stand a chance here for another 25 years, if ever: Co-ed public toilets; prostitution, commercial sex entertainment and transgender individuals. America's appalling illiteracy and growing Fundamentalist ideology make it unlikely that AIDS will be treated as anything more than a consequence of behavior, likewise HPV, Hep-C. You call us dinosaurs because we think you should find another name for same sex unions but you have yet to get up close and personal with real black jack toting Tyrannasaurus rex. Its going to be eye opening for some when the protesters are lobbying outside City Halls the way they do in front of abortion clinics. All we are doing is politely but firmly saying "we don't think this is right".

I also don't see how the fact that being gay is "natural" makes a case for legal gay marriage. People naturally wind up with all kinds of mental and behavioral complexes that cannot be considered 'normal'. I am told that rehabilitation of child molesters is impossible because it is impossible to convince them that their behavior is anything but right and proper. Society has to act and restrict their movements and their liberty. When it fails to come down on offenders with appropriate severity relapses occur. The consequences are shattering. One could say that America has been far too permissive with respect to gay people and has allowed things to reach this point where rather than living quietly under the radar gay lifestyle advocates want the freedom to cavort and consort in full view of women and children. The horror. Yep, its our fault. Not anyone gay. But that doesn't mean that straight America should go any further towards the left. "This far and no further".

H
You seem to forget, prostitution is already legal in Nevada, isn't it? Commercial sex entertainment is alive & kicking...you've heard of porn, right? Transgender individuals are already around you, you know that right? Permissive? No one's asking your "permission" to live a life as a homosexual, do you think they care if you don't agree w/it? I'm an atheist, do you think I care that you & millions of others probably think I'm a heathen? Nope, not a chance, it's actually amusing to me. You're right, america DOES have more to worry about than gay marriage....if that's the case, get it done & no more of that whining & blathering that you're so annoyed by.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:28 PM
 
15,028 posts, read 4,652,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Just my 2 cents. Though I don't believe in Gay marriages, I can't stop them but I do believe that there should not be religious marriages for them. Reason being homosexual/lesbian relationships are prohibited by the major religions be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism. That means those who believe, believe it to be God's commandment. Which is higher than any man-made laws. That is what I personally find it puzzling with the current Christian faith dilemna. There are some sects which do allow such marriages even though it is a clear contradiction of the faith. Why is this so? How can a church decide against the basic tenets of its faith? I just don't get it. If the answer is because of civil liberites et all...then they have got it wrong because to those who believe, we are all slaves to HIM and answerable to HIM & thus need to follow HIS laws...and not snip & snip here & there the laws just to suit our purposes.. Call me old-fashioned..I don't mind

Different Churches interpret the Bible in different ways to fit with the tenets they want their members to follow.

Why do you think there are so many different Christian denominations instead of just ONE?

If you are really interested in answers to your question, here's a good place to start reading:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm

It really is quite a stretch to interpret the Bible to mean that the Christian God hates homosexuality or that homosexuality is a sin - but plenty of Churches (especially in the past 100 years or so since the word "homosexuality" was brought into in the English language) have managed to do it because they Choose to believe it. Just as different Churches in the past chose to believe that inter-racial marriages were against God's will, or that witches should be burned etc.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:55 PM
 
Location: San Salvador, El Salvador
567 posts, read 913,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
A child needs a mother and father - Two (2) parents

Obama had one parent he's the President of the United States.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,105 posts, read 23,034,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mental_complex View Post
Obama had one parent he's the President of the United States.
He also had a grandmother and grandfather who raised him
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:30 PM
 
8,745 posts, read 6,355,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
He also had a grandmother and grandfather who raised him
Even if he did not have their help, he still would have been the same amazing man he is. The President of the United States. Amazing.

A child does not need both parents. To think that means you also think that children who do not have both are somewhat less as a whole compared to kids who have both parents.

That is wrong. It all depends on the child if they want to be productive. I had two parents throughout my younger years. I never did as well in school as my cousins who lost their mother when they were young. So your claim that a child needs both parent is not correct.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:35 PM
 
15,028 posts, read 4,652,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The gay lifestyle is a crime against humanity and as such it can be classified as Sodomy. These words have biblical precedents but they are accepted in legal and secular contexts as well.
Using the original Hebrew context of the biblical story of Lot and Sodom, you yourself could easily be classified as a Sodomite because of your inhospitable and nasty attitude to people who are different to you.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg194.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg191.htm

http://www.torah.org/features/second...spitality.html

Last edited by Ceist; 01-04-2009 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,418 posts, read 3,311,352 times
Reputation: 1654
Quote:
Originally Posted by mental_complex View Post
Right use Jesus to justify homosexuality, awesome choice! black American took nearly 200 years to get equal rights, so don't compare the two. blacks took small steps to the ultimate goal, gays won't see the bigger picture and want everything now. blacks were hung, murdered, thrown in jail, sprayed with fire hoses, spat on, forced into slavery, seregrated and all of it was just fine and dandy by white gays, who existed during that time.

How dare you compare the two, noone is shutting the door on you, you have laws protecting your right to be gay, live and go where you want, blacks didn't, gay bashing is not tolerated but black bashing was the norm back then, maybe you should grow a spine and fight for what you think you deserve instead of whinning and comparing yourself to black.

Take to the streets and demand it, stop rolling over (excuse the pun) and taking it in the a**.
that's what people are doing my friend... and you are here to oppose it...
that's the point...
blacks are not the only people to suffer discrimination... My grandmother is a jew and could tell you all about it as well..
how dare I compare the two???
discrimination is discrimination... whether you're handicapped, black, brown, white, yellow, red, gay, straight,
being offended that one cause is not worthy of another is absurd... pressing that issue only undermines the logic of your argument and you look silly.

and bringing jesus into it is a valid point.. because many of you who are hateful against gays do it in the name of jesus...If that being said bothers you.. I'm sorry.. I'm not going to sit here and cater to your warped impression of history and tolerance...
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,418 posts, read 3,311,352 times
Reputation: 1654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Jarrett View Post
Yeah really, homosexuals living in the West have it easy compared to homosexuals who live in the Islamic world. If you and your boyfriend moved to Iran or Palestine for example and you 2 started making out in public in front of everybody you 2 would basically be signing your own death wish.
what is your point??? that gay's should shut up and not say anything?
That's like telling kids in poverty here in the US that their situation is ok.. because they could be like the kids in africa dying of starvation and aids...
America is not a nation of people who SETTLE for "good enough"...
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:59 PM
 
8,745 posts, read 6,355,075 times
Reputation: 3329
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
what is your point??? that gay's should shut up and not say anything?
That's like telling kids in poverty here in the US that their situation is ok.. because they could be like the kids in africa dying of starvation and aids...
America is not a nation of people who SETTLE for "good enough"...
Exactly. I hate it when someone says "OH. Try being gay in Islamic countries."

That is comparing it apples and oranges. But whenever I put out an argument, they tell me I am comparing it with apples and oranges.

I am so confused sometimes. Haha.
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