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If you've really been there, then you shouldn't be perpetuating lies.
No other country in the world would go to such extreme efforts to avoid killing a sworn enemy that relentlessly attacks again and again. Yet no other country gets the scrutiny and vitriol that Israel receives from her "critics." It is precisely this unfair treatment that earns Israel's "critics" the more accurate label of Jew-hater. You sound like one of them -- congrats. You must be so proud.
Whoa the race card comes out.
What lies? Please show me what lies I have told. Do you deny that Israel has a high body count in civilians? I guess what they did to lebanon not so long ago doesn't count.
What lie? That it was Israeli hero's that blew up the King david Hotel to make a statement? They admitted to it. Guess Arabs are not the only ones to do such acts.
How many Israeli's died in the last confrontation? How many Palestinians?
I hate Jews? What line in any post that I have ever made says such a thing?
So you are a jew hater when you call out what Israel does?
Have you ever been to Israel? I have several times. I respect much of what Israel has accomplished. We all should after all we paid for a big part of it.
No I don't hate Jews nor do I hate Israel. As a soldier I do hate targeting civilians. Israel does target civilians and makes lame excuses. Could it be that the rest of the world can see through the BS and call it what it is? We are not talking about an occasion cruise missile fired from hundreds of miles away going a stray. We are talking about Wire guided Missiles aimed at homes with women and children inside and no real evidence of bad guys.
That is why Israel needs the USA to act as an umbrella and save them from the fallout for their actions.
Spare us all the propoganda effort on Israels behalf. Let Israel fight their own battles on the field and the press.
It has been said that if the Muslims put down their guns, there would be peace, but if Israel puts down her guns, there will be no more Israel.
My survival is not a grey area. I'm so happy for you that you have the luxury of living in grey zones and never having to confront the bottom line. When someone is trying to kill me for no good reason whatsoever, they are wrong, and that's black and white. When someone defends and champions those who are trying to kill me, that, too, is wrong, and also black and white.
My survival is not a sport for me, or an intellectual pasttime, or even a "scholarly pursuit," the kind you are so proud to engage in. I am more than capable of having a discussion, but I won't waste my time pretending when I detect the same old propaganda and lies that are so commonly taught in academia.
Oh Thats why Israeli hero's blew up the King David hotel. Ok Got it.
By the way Using smart bombs is how you keep collateral damage to a min.
Dropping 500 pounders on a housing complex??? hmmmm just a little bit sloppy.
Whoa the race card comes out.
What lies? Please show me what lies I have told. Do you deny that Israel has a high body count in civilians? I guess what they did to lebanon not so long ago doesn't count.
What lie? That it was Israeli hero's that blew up the King david Hotel to make a statement? They admitted to it. Guess Arabs are not the only ones to do such acts.
How many Israeli's died in the last confrontation? How many Palestinians?
I hate Jews? What line in any post that I have ever made says such a thing?
So you are a jew hater when you call out what Israel does?
Have you ever been to Israel? I have several times. I respect much of what Israel has accomplished. We all should after all we paid for a big part of it.
No I don't hate Jews nor do I hate Israel. As a soldier I do hate targeting civilians. Israel does target civilians and makes lame excuses. Could it be that the rest of the world can see through the BS and call it what it is? We are not talking about an occasion cruise missile fired from hundreds of miles away going a stray. We are talking about Wire guided Missiles aimed at homes with women and children inside and no real evidence of bad guys.
That is why Israel needs the USA to act as an umbrella and save them from the fallout for their actions.
Spare us all the propoganda effort on Israels behalf. Let Israel fight their own battles on the field and the press.
I LIVE there, you tool. And unless you are a high level member of the IDF, which I strongly doubt, you don't know what evidence they do or don't have when they choose a target.
Israel needs help from her allies because she is a TINY little land mass in the midst of seething barbaric enemies who possess a HUGE portion of the globe, but are obsessed with a teensy little sliver of land. Yep, it's all about land . . .
...As a soldier I do hate targeting civilians. Israel does target civilians and makes lame excuses. Could it be that the rest of the world can see through the BS and call it what it is? We are not talking about an occasion cruise missile fired from hundreds of miles away going a stray. We are talking about Wire guided Missiles aimed at homes with women and children inside and no real evidence of bad guys.
That is why Israel needs the USA to act as an umbrella and save them from the fallout for their actions.
Spare us all the propoganda effort on Israels behalf. Let Israel fight their own battles on the field and the press.
I agree. I think Israel needs to get their arses off of Arab land. They have been intruding there for half century and their senseless killing must stop. This country's shameful support of this intrusion and utter disrespect for Arabs and their values is absolutely appalling. As bin Laden said a few years back, it is the sole reason for terrorism around the world. Arabs are a proud, noble people and they view their land as sacred and as vital as we do our freedom. Arabs must be given greater consideration and this country needs to instead focus its attention and humanitarian efforts in Africa where greater exploitation and intrusion has occurred and greater atrocities persist.
Dennis Prager has written a 5-part series explaining the historical reasons behind the American Jewish support of liberal politics. If you are interested, you might google it and read it.
Basically, there are multiple reasons. Some Russian immigrants were coming from a Socialist and Communist background (because it was better than being slaughtered by the Czar's army) and they just never got the memo that it wasn't the best path to take in the new country. Some Jews are so far removed from their history and their heritage that they merely vote on abortion, gay marriage, or some other single issue. Some Jews support Israel and convince themselves that all Democratic presidents will too. Some Jews have Stockholm syndrome. Some Jews want so badly to be accepted by gentile academia that they adopt the views of leftists in an effort to accomplish that goal.
I could go on, but it's just too depressing.
It must be, if that's the way you've been taught to think of liberal Jews. Being one myself, I can assure you that every bit of that is a bunch of crap; completely and utterly untrue. Portraying your fellow Jews in such a despicable manner is sickening. Stockholm Syndrome? You really should be ashamed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF
I'd like to clear up a few things here.
1. The problem isn't that Jews received a homeland. The problem lies in the fact that there was very little respectful planning on the part of the Jews because far too many moved to an area that didn't have the space for them. The other problem is they didn't respect the boundaries given to them by Britain in 1948 when both an Israel and a Palestine were created. It's not entirely their fault - much of the Middle East didn't agree with the mass pilgrimage which threatened their way of life, culture, homestead, etc.
Jews had been moving to this geographical area as early as the late 19th century, by the way. It's not to say that Jews didn't live here, but it is to say that Jews didn't move EN MASSE to the area until WWII.
Blame Britain, blame the Arabs, but don't not blame Jews just because they were being slaughtered in Germany.
2. One needs to forget the Old Testament. "Their ancestors were living there for a millenia." Tell that to the early Colonists. That sounds all good and well but it doesn't matter much. Do you plan on giving your land back to Native Americans? It was theirs, after all.
3. Just a question: why didn't Jews choose a smarter region to make their homeland? Russia, in the form of Alaska, was much-talked-about? Why not? Imagine how much safer the world be right now if they didn't choose a land that already had landowners.
I just wish they had done it less violently and less disrespectfully. My good friend was but a young boy in 1960, but Israeli forces forced him and his family out of his home in Palestine. When they simply asked if they could go back in to get their life savings, a gun was pointed in the small of his back and told that if he re-entered his house, he'd be shot.
There's no excuse for what Israel has been allowed to get away with, regardless of what they suffered in Germany, Poland, etc.
And so is this garbage. Not one word of truth in the entire thing (well, except perhaps about your friend, but given your propensity for making up crap, I'm not convinced of the veracity of that, either). That you proclaim yourself a studied scholar on the issue is mind-boggling, as you tend to not get one fact right about the history of the region or the conflict.
Why didn't Jews "choose" a smarter region to make their homeland? I'm just freaking gobsmacked. We're still digging up ancient Jewish ruins in Israel, and you think we should've just picked someplace like the welcoming arms of Russia? That's the most insane nonsense I think I've ever heard in my entire life.
I'm not even going to bother to address you any further because you've already proven to be a completely disingenuous opponent on this issue. It's absolutely disgusting the lengths you'll go to to smear Jews by outright lying about historical facts.
I LIVE there, you tool. And unless you are a high level member of the IDF, which I strongly doubt, you don't know what evidence they do or don't have when they choose a target.
Israel needs help from her allies because she is a TINY little land mass in the midst of seething barbaric enemies who possess a HUGE portion of the globe, but are obsessed with a teensy little sliver of land. Yep, it's all about land . . .
Keep talking until you believe yourself.
ROFLMAO That means you owe me. My Tax dollars I pay keep you in weapons. We pay to repair your war damage to your neighbor. 800 million for Gaza.
You are a tiny land mass that brings in the same cash as Italy or Spain.
Are you a high level member of the IDF? Naw didnt think so. That means you know about as much as anyone else.
I will tell you what I do know.
Firing Hellfire Missiles into a house with civilians is sloppy. Dropping 500 pounders on housing developments is sloppy..
The palestinians have few weapons to counter the M1A1. Why the need to use artillary barage?
I am not on the Palestinians side in this. I want Israel to get off the USA's teat. I want Israel to answer for their actions without their big brother protecting them.
We owe you? What do we owe you? I am sure the sailors who were on board the USS Liberty feel that we owe you something. Before you call it an accident I will weed through the BS for you. The Liberty looked nothing like an Egyption trawler and she was flying the flag of the USA.
Look before you shoot. In fact 1 pilot did.
We owe Israel nothing the hundreds of billions of dollars bought and paid for every thing.
We owe you? That must be why we catch an Israeli spy every few years.
We owe you? Your country sold the USSR the secrets to our LA class subs.
We owe you not a thing. We owe no gratitude. It is Israel that owes everything.
It must be, if that's the way you've been taught to think of liberal Jews. Being one myself, I can assure you that every bit of that is a bunch of crap; completely and utterly untrue. Portraying your fellow Jews in such a despicable manner is sickening. Stockholm Syndrome? You really should be ashamed. And so is this garbage. Not one word of truth in the entire thing (well, except perhaps about your friend, but given your propensity for making up crap, I'm not convinced of the veracity of that, either). That you proclaim yourself a studied scholar on the issue is mind-boggling, as you tend to not get one fact right about the history of the region or the conflict.
Why didn't Jews "choose" a smarter region to make their homeland? I'm just freaking gobsmacked. We're still digging up ancient Jewish ruins in Israel, and you think we should've just picked someplace like the welcoming arms of Russia? That's the most insane nonsense I think I've ever heard in my entire life.
I'm not even going to bother to address you any further because you've already proven to be a completely disingenuous opponent on this issue. It's absolutely disgusting the lengths you'll go to to smear Jews by outright lying about historical facts.
You didn't bother to address anything I said except that I said Jews had an option to choose a homeland that wasn't already occupied predominately by non-Jews.
Is that not true? huh?
Second option: Obey the borders which were drawn out for you in 1948. It's unfortunate that that didn't happen.
Is that not true? huh?
You can certainly disagree with me, but that doesn't make either untrue. In fact, both were true. 1. They could have settled anywhere in the world. Despite your angry post, Russia/Alaska were actually much talked about. 2. Are you trying to tell me that Israeli settlement on Palestinian land isn't occuring right now? You can always disagree with a person, or atleast interject a caveat, but lies? Smearing? Talk about a complex. Please don't embarrass yourself in a discussion like this where instead of actually discussing the issue at hand, you smear me with an ad-hominem attack that really just disgraces yourself.
Please have the courtesy to talk with other human beings in a manner that doesn't degrade and doesn't embarrass yourself. We're all humans in this together and like I told another person on your very same side, making accusations and not having a self-awareness of wrongs on your side as well, won't get you anywhere in a discussion with those you disagree with. Absolutism might be OK for political talking heads for entertain purposes, but not on real issues.
im a tree hugger and i have a problem with hammas shooting missiles at israel for over a year.
israel has a right to defend themselves. but then again-- many americans think self defense is a crime, certainly true of of government.
You didn't bother to address anything I said except that I said Jews had an option to choose a homeland that wasn't already occupied predominately by non-Jews.
Is that not true? huh?
Second option: Obey the borders which were drawn out for you in 1948. It's unfortunate that that didn't happen.
Is that not true? huh?
You can certainly disagree with me, but that doesn't make either untrue. In fact, both were true. 1. They could have settled anywhere in the world. Despite your angry post, Russia/Alaska were actually much talked about. 2. Are you trying to tell me that Israeli settlement on Palestinian land isn't occuring right now? You can always disagree with a person, or atleast interject a caveat, but lies? Smearing? Talk about a complex. Please don't embarrass yourself in a discussion like this where instead of actually discussing the issue at hand, you smear me with an ad-hominem attack that really just disgraces yourself.
Please have the courtesy to talk with other human beings in a manner that doesn't degrade and doesn't embarrass yourself. We're all humans in this together and like I told another person on your very same side, making accusations and not having a self-awareness of wrongs on your side as well, won't get you anywhere in a discussion with those you disagree with. Absolutism might be OK for political talking heads for entertain purposes, but not on real issues.
Like I said, not one word you said is historically accurate or true. And liars don't deserve courtesy, they deserve disdain. If anyone should be embarrassed, it's you, for having the gall to spew lies while calling yourself a learned historian on the subject.
To anyone who would like a factual, unbiased, truthful, history of Jews in the region, the formation of Israel as a Jewish state and the various wars that have led to the expansion of Israel's borders, I highly recommend this site:
Like I said, not one word you said is historically accurate or true. And liars don't deserve courtesy, they deserve disdain. If anyone should be embarrassed, it's you, for having the gall to spew lies while calling yourself a learned historian on the subject.
To anyone who would like a factual, unbiased, truthful, history of Jews in the region, the formation of Israel as a Jewish state and the various wars that have led to the expansion of Israel's borders, I highly recommend this site:
The brief history seems to have left out terrorist activity by Israeli's the King david hotel for example. The point being that Israel has no right to claim a moral high ground given their own history of using Terrorism to make a statement or force their agenda.
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