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Ignorant? Are you sure that its not you that is the "ignorant" one.
Yes, ignorant. You are ignorant to our way of life, shown by your statements. I never made a statement about your country because I've never been there - but you have given enough examples to go on.
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Originally Posted by Scotslass
I have always admitted Glasgow/Scotlands problem, but it is not as violent like you make it out to be.
Uh, quick check here...I never made a statement about your country. Just your comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotslass
I know that there are careless people in the US that do not properly house their firearms, people get their firearms stolen all the time. If your statement were true then how are they young kids getting a hold of them? I can bet they dont have the key.
What you didn't know, we all just leave guns lying on the floor and kitchen table. Out of 300 million people (Compared to about 600K where you live) perhaps there are a few bad apples. We ALL KNOW in Glasgow/Scotlands EVERYONE follows the law to the letter. Please...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotslass
I have been to the US more times than you have ate at a restaurant. I'm guessing you've never been to Scotland let alone outside the U.S.A.
Yes yes, of course...typical liberal elitist mindset. "I'm right and you are simply an ignorant working class clod."
Well lets see, this was taken recently on a recent trip to see family - again:
Would you like to see my passport?
Defensive? You bet your @ss. I'm sick of folks like you attempting to look down your nose at us in the United States. It gets old, especially when your comments are foolish at best.
Look at Japan.
Do Mexico and S. Africa have stricter gun laws? That wasn't presented here and is not linked for review.
You keep making this lame excuse when the per capita numbers are laid out. Maybe you don't understand what per capita means, I don't know.
Yes I know full well what per capita is. It's the best way to compare things. The U.S. is not that bad as some are suggesting when you look at it this way. You keep trotting out the simple number of crimes which sounds big but per capita it's not. Those stats again that you posted:
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#1 South Africa:0.719782per 1,000 people
#2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people
#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people
#4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people
#5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people
#6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people
#7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people
#8 United States: 0.0279271per 1,000 people
Modern firearms are practically banned in South Africa. In Mexico they're extremely restricted so it's nearly a ban for most people there.
And you really need to go by state and even by city in some cases to get an accurate picture of crime in the U.S. Some states have extremely low per capita murder rates and such (like Vermont, which has the least restrictive gun laws in the U.S.), while other areas have very high rates (D.C. for instance despite the strictest laws).
Yes, I believe they are.
Why was there a gun out when there's a young child in the house?
That's the crime here.
It's simple if, then logic. If the gun were locked up, there would have been no shooting.
If the babysitter was paying closer attention there would have been no shooting.
Quote:
A 4-year old should never have access to a gun.
Under close adult supervision a 4 year old could shoot a .22 without a problem.
You know, Scotslass, this is completely off the topic, but I like to drink. I LOVE beer. Sometimes champagne on special occasions. But if someone said to me that we could snap our fingers and make alcohol disappear off this planet forever, I'd be all for it. I've seen way too much sadness, tragedy, and death caused by people irresponsibly abusing it.
If the babysitter was paying closer attention there would have been no shooting.
Under close adult supervision a 4 year old could shoot a .22 without a problem.
Flat out wrong.
You're contradicting yourself in the same post. First, you're blaming it on the babysitter, saying if the babysitter would have been paying closer attention this never would've happened (meaning, a 4 yr. old shoots off a firearm). Then, in the very next sentence, you say under supervision the kid could shoot off a gun no problem. So really, in either instance you're admitting the child can shoot off a gun, doesn't matter if someone is there watching or not. Obviously he could, cause he did. What you're not understanding is that kids run off quite frequently into other rooms. Again, there is not link to this story, why I don't know, so we don't know the whole story. I find it amazing that you're blaming the babysitter for this instead of the parents who should've had this thing under lock & key & stored in a place the child couldn't find or reach. AND, they should've told the babysitter about the gun in the first place, especially if they stupidly left it in an area where something like this happens. Nope, the parents are responsible for this one, NOT the babysitter.
Yes, ignorant. You are ignorant to our way of life, shown by your statements. I never made a statement about your country because I've never been there - but you have given enough examples to go on.
Uh, quick check here...I never made a statement about your country. Just your comments.
What you didn't know, we all just leave guns lying on the floor and kitchen table. Out of 300 million people (Compared to about 600K where you live) perhaps there are a few bad apples. We ALL KNOW in Glasgow/Scotlands EVERYONE follows the law to the letter. Please...
Yes yes, of course...typical liberal elitist mindset. "I'm right and you are simply an ignorant working class clod."
Well lets see, this was taken recently on a recent trip to see family - again:
Would you like to see my passport?
Defensive? You bet your @ss. I'm sick of folks like you attempting to look down your nose at us in the United States. It gets old, especially when your comments are foolish at best.
Funny i've been to the US many times to visit family, im engaged to an American....not so ignorant about your culture. I've been through 7 states, experience different cultures, met many people. The U.S is not immune to stupidity and careless individuals. No where is.
If i was liberal i wouldn't have 4 guns in my house now would I? Or go hunting every summer with my Dad. So your wrong. Your judging me, and you cannot admit that there are people that are careless with firearms. Its you that has the problem not me.
Funny i've been to the US many times to visit family, im engaged to an American....not so ignorant about your culture. I've been through 7 states, experience different cultures, met many people. The U.S is not immune to stupidity and careless individuals. No where is.
If i was liberal i wouldn't have 4 guns in my house now would i. DUH.
People who love guns get quite defensive when someone else points out to them the obsession w/guns in this country is over the top. I hate guns, can't understand why people are so touchy about the subject. Guns cause nothing but problems.
Break it down by state and you find in general the areas with the worst crime are the areas with the strictest restrictions in the U.S., and the safest places, less restricted.
Please provide a reputable link for this.
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Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
The right of self-defense is not to be abolished because of a relatively rare event like this (rare given the population and how often guns are used without such incidents).
Nobody's arguing to take away anybody's right to self-defense. Some would argue, and they have a basis - even if you disagree - that certain weapons should be removed from the equation. We already disallow the use of bazookas and napalm as forms of self-defense. The question is where to draw the line. You set up a strawman rather make a valid argument.
British style gun control would have left them dead.
This is a very weak argument. You've found one example of someone protecting his family with a gun. But in allowing that relatively free gun ownership, how many suicides happened? How many people were killed in heat-of-the-moment arguments? How many murders can be traced to stolen guns? How many accidental deaths?
Sure you can find one example. But there are many, many more examples of those unintended consequences. Some are willing to put up with those other deaths, just to have the freedom of gun ownership. But don't argue that there are fewer deaths.
People who love guns get quite defensive when someone else points out to them the obsession w/guns in this country is over the top. I hate guns, can't understand why people are so touchy about the subject. Guns cause nothing but problems.
Yeah i've noticed that, there is obviously something wrong if they get so defensive/touchy about it. Why? I have guns for one purpose, pure and simple to kill. I admit i hunt with them they are a tool, nothing more doesn't mean i am obsessed like some.
I'm not touchy about them though, quite happy with our laws here. Never done us any harm, gun crime isn't out of control and we dont have incidents like this happening so there is clearly something seriously wrong.
You're contradicting yourself in the same post. First, you're blaming it on the babysitter, saying if the babysitter would have been paying closer attention this never would've happened (meaning, a 4 yr. old shoots off a firearm). Then, in the very next sentence, you say under supervision the kid could shoot off a gun no problem. So really, in either instance you're admitting the child can shoot off a gun, doesn't matter if someone is there watching or not.
How do I contradict myself? If the babysitter was paying closer attention, they could have prevented the child from playing with the gun to begin with.
The other poster said children that age should never have access to a firearm. I pointed out that no, they could safely with careful adult supervision fire a small caliber gun like a .22 without an issue. That's not saying the child should have free, non-adult supervised access to a firearm. Rather, it's an example to show how overly broad that statement was.
Quote:
Obviously he could, cause he did. What you're not understanding is that kids run off quite frequently into other rooms. Again, there is not link to this story, why I don't know, so we don't know the whole story. I find it amazing that you're blaming the babysitter for this instead of the parents who should've had this thing under lock & key & stored in a place the child couldn't find or reach.
I'm blaming both actually. There were many times when I was a young child when I was told to stay in one room playing (because of things going on elsewhere in the house, generally, which my parents didn't want me getting in the way of or getting hurt from). The babysitter also could have at least followed the kid. They're hired for a job of watching the child and keeping the child safe, it's not too much to ask for them to do so. Yes I do agree the parents should have kept the gun inaccessible to the child but full blame does not fall on their shoulders.
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AND, they should've told the babysitter about the gun in the first place, especially if they stupidly left it in an area where something like this happens.
Maybe, maybe not. I generally don't tell anyone about my guns specifically and their precise location.
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Out of 300 million people (Compared to about 600K where you live) perhaps there are a few bad apples. We ALL KNOW in Glasgow/Scotlands EVERYONE follows the law to the letter. Please...
