Compared To Carter, Bush Rocked! (middle east, enemies, Israeli, illegal)

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by AONE

Well regardless of your ability to stick your head in the sand The record of Bush will make him by far the worse president in history. If we are lucky the new administration will seek an inquiry and hold them accountable for their crimes. Your information on Carter is as warped as your views on Bush. If you will see Bush as good there is no doubt you have no ability to see clearly anyone else's record.
Regan told you all is good and you believed his lies. He was the first in the line to damage the Constitution and we no longer have the country of our founding fathers. I hope Bush is seen for what he has done and prosecuted. He is a blight on the American system.

Those little blue lines are links to tables and charts that confirm what I'm alleging. It isn't rocket science.

You've had a democratically controlled congress for two years. If they had a case to bring, they would have. They decided to not bother even trying.

My information on Carter is historical fact. That's why I provided links.

The same links apply to GWB and the rest of the recent presidents.

Please feel free to use the links I provided to challege my conclusions.

I backed up what I said, see if you can do the same.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by momonkey

Besides agreement with another liberal What substance do you bring? Can you prove what you say, or should we simply take your word for it?

You should just take my word for it. That plus the reams of evidence that I and many other posters more credible than you have piled at your feet in previous threads documenting the fraudulent nature of your claims.

Originally Posted by momonkey

What has surprised me the most about this thread is that my liberal friends haven't even attempted to prove my premise wrong. A few personal attacks in passing and that's it? I am extremely disappointed in you liberals. I've seen better from you.

Yes. You've seen it over and over again. Yet you persist in proposing the same arguments in this thread as have been thoroughly disproven and discredited in prior threads. How long do you think you can play the same game? Why should anyone be willing to play it along with you? You are descended into trolldom. Enjoy your life there...

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by odanny

True leadership, the kind that not only gets ignored, but gets mocked.

Jimmy Carter....true leadership? He was the epitome of indecision and lack of leadership. The economy was a disaster, as was the state of US foreign policy, with hostages in Iran and the Soviets invading Afghanistan.

The guy was so inept that he lost the election by an electoral vote of 489 - 49, with even liberal bastions like Massachusetts, New York, Vermont, California, Illinois, and the like voting for Reagan. The country couldn't wait to get him out of office.

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by lostdestroyedlife

Carter had a problem with fuel prices because of the Arab Oil embargo, Bush had a problem with fuel prices because his friends in the right places were able to manipulate the prices to make his friends and family alot of money

As for what Carter did? Well he looked like he was on the right track as far as getting us more energy independent and less reliable on Foriegn oil, Carter Tried To Stop Bush's Energy Disasters - 28 Years Ago but then the Cancer of the Reagan administration came in and realized the profits for his friends were more important then the sanctity and well being of the average American

"Because we are now running out of gas and oil, we must prepare quickly for a third change, to strict conservation and to the use of coal and permanent renewable energy sources, like solar power."

"If it were possible to keep it rising during the 1970s and 1980s by 5 percent a year as it has in the past, we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade."

"Too few of our utilities will have switched to coal, our most abundant energy source."

"We need to shift to plentiful coal while taking care to protect the environment, and to apply stricter safety standards to nuclear energy."

"--Increase our coal production by about two thirds to more than 1 billion tons a year"

American Experience | Jimmy Carter | Primary Sources

Insightful!

Burn lots of coal, put on a sweater and freeze in the dark.



This is what the American people thought of Carter in 1980.

RealClearPolitics - Electoral Map

This is what the American people thought of Reagan in 1984.

RealClearPolitics - Electoral Map

[ilmotore]

I don't think so. Recall that this country was "bombed" first by Islamic terrorists. We responded by taking out the terrorist's support base in Afghanistan. Next, recall that President Bush negotiated for 14 months with Saddam and received sanctions for Saddam's violations of his ceasefire agreement before going into Iraq. The result is the Iraqi government is no longer snatching citizens off the streets for the personal sadistic games of pain and death, no one being singled out and public whipped and beaten for such things as stepping outside the door without their husbands, no chemical attacks killing thousands of their own people and hundreds of thousands disappearing only to be found in mass graves. And he was not "contained" as the legacy media would have you believe. The French and the Germans were lobbying the UN to remove Saddam's sanctions due to the billions of dollars in bribes they were receiving from US paid "oil for food" programs. Remember history or repeat it.

Originally Posted by odanny

True leadership, the kind that not only gets ignored, but gets mocked.

ALL Presidents have had right wing nutjobs wanting to bomb into submission anyone that crosses this country, and sadly, we have had weak, ineffectual and completely inept Presidents who listen to them.

Fortunately for AMERICA, none have been worse than George W. Bush, and may history never provide anything close again

[beenhereandthere]

Originally Posted by lostdestroyedlife

Bush was a failure, Carter got a bad rap because he had to face the mess of Vietnam/Nixon/FOrd as well as a huge Oil Embargo which was the main reason for the bad economy

Carter did some good, he put alot of policies to try and get us off our dependency on foriegn oil as well as looking for alternate energy sources, all these were scrapped by Reagan as he looked to cut anything that wasnt profitable for his corporate/war mongering friends

Reagan/Bush/Bush has been the Curse of the United States, Carter gets a bad rap because it is the GOP policy to blame everything on the Democrats


if you are an oil profiteers or a war profiteer or an otherwise corrupt fellow, then I apologize and you probably liked the Reagan/Bush/Bush presidencys

Carter might have actually won in 1980 if.......
Reagan and the GOP did not influence (or even bribe: Iran Contra?) the Iranians to hold the hostages until Reagan took office.
It's a shame no one has really looked into that part of it.

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his."

No one president is responsible as much as the American people are. We are war weary which cost millions of lives.

There are alot of factors like the housing market and bad loans but initiating a war with a country for no other reason then a personal vendetta cost innocent lives and billions of dollars.If Bush never went after Saddam more then 3000 americans would still be alive and there wouldn't have been as big a need for this stimulus.Think about this--- he gave directly to Iraq over $700 billion plus our daily cost of war there which means the Iraqi war itself has cost us over $1 trillion while on GWB's watch.Carter wasn't a great president but GWB was a disaster!!!

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by Lancet71

Carter wasn't a great president but GWB was a disaster!!!

OK..now you're entitled to your political and partisan opinion, and it's fine that you don't like GWB, but I can cite numerous metrics and facts to explain why Carter was a failed President. What are yours for GWB?

Those who hate Bush love to cite Iraq or the war on terror as the prime example of his failure. He made some serious tactical mistakes, no doubt, but if you look at the strategy and the outcome....he was successful, no? We have not been attacked in the US since 9/11/01. Iraq isn't perfect, but they are moving in the correct direction. The prognostications of failure and defeat were wrong.

Our economy in the last year has taken a dive (with causes that transcend GWB), but coming out of the recession and dot com bust left by Clinton we had 5 years of economic growth, with inflation and interest rates both low. Contrast that with Carter's last years in office.

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by neil0311

OK..now you're entitled to your political and partisan opinion, and it's fine that you don't like GWB, but I can cite numerous metrics and facts to explain why Carter was a failed President. What are yours for GWB?

Those who hate Bush love to cite Iraq or the war on terror as the prime example of his failure. He made some serious tactical mistakes, no doubt, but if you look at the strategy and the outcome....he was successful, no? We have not been attacked in the US since 9/11/01. Iraq isn't perfect, but they are moving in the correct direction. The prognostications of failure and defeat were wrong.

Our economy in the last year has taken a dive (with causes that transcend GWB), but coming out of the recession and dot com bust left by Clinton we had 5 years of economic growth, with inflation and interest rates both low. Contrast that with Carter's last years in office.

You wanted to know my opinion on Bush,ok. He was told repeatedly by his advisors that it wasn't Iraq again,and again but he didn't care. He ignored all of them and went after them SOLELY because of a personal vendetta.Saddam messed with daddy now i'm going to get him.We have lost over 3000 lives and for what? Do you think after we leave that the 3 sects of Islam will get along and stay as a democratic nation? It obviously will not so Iraq is a drawn out waste of time and money---- and more then that a money pit-----DISASTER!!! It would be like using billions of dollars planting tomato seeds in the desert and then saying we tried but it's not a failure. If he would have gone after the real threat Bin Ladin in Afghanistan then maybe we would have had this all wrapped up by some time in 2002.Instead it's almost 8 years later,people are still dying, he gave over a trillion dollars to a country that WILL NOT ever stay democratic and then people wonder why we defend Obama.Obama is pretty much in a no win situation.The stimulus is a necessary start for us but by no means the complete answer to our problem.The biggest money generators for this country are exports but GWB also killed our foreign trade by making us one of the most hated nations in the world. You have to be the worlds friend if possible and not bully all nations but it just shows you what GWB did and why Obama now is forced to kiss butt to give us a chance to re-establish relations with all these countries. If we have friends we can sell our products to them and have more of a supply of imports as well which means we can get those products cheaper. Now the next step would probably be legal marijuana which would create tons of jobs and create an instant export with a great demand.As far as Clinton goes the dot com businesses were destined to fall because big companies eventually would take them out and the housing crisis goes back to the original George H. Bush when borrowing laws started which were very laxed.It was only a matter of time before it burst but that I won't blame on "W". That is something that should have been monitored 18-20 years ago but wasn't. Now back to GWB. If he went after the right guy and it was over by 2002-03 then we never would have gave Iraq over 1 trillion dollars and 3000+ innocent lives would have been spared. There wouldn't have been a need for a bailout,and would have had much less on our plate to deal with.With the 1 trillion+ spent by Bush and the amount used for the current bailou and stimulus we could have converted the whole U.S. to wind,solar,geothermal,and hydro power. We could have put everyone on universal healthcare,we could have actually fixed the states effected by the hurricanes and floods that GWB left to rot and obviously our dependency on oil would be very low---but why would an OIL GUY like GWB want that? Afamily that's money is in oil doesn't want alternative fuels, they want us to keep using oil! GWB plane and simple was a guy who for 8 years showed his selfishness and unfortunately the backwoods folks who voted for him if they had half a brain wouldn't have!

[odanny]

Originally Posted by momonkey

Since different people see things in different ways, I wanted to look at some objective criteria for determining who is actually the worst POTUS before expressing my personal opinion on the matter. Economic considerations are typically cited as one of the main reasons, along with the Iraq war and it's conduct, that lead many people to express the opinion that GWB is hands down the worst in history. Being Middle-aged, I experienced first-hand the dark days of the Carter Administration and the blunder fest he started in 1976. I suspect that younger people, through no fault of their own, have failed to understand his impact on our status in the world and to give him the credit he so richly deserves for setting in play the circumstances that have caused numerous unnecessary wars and the economic debacle that plagued the first years of the Reagan Administration.

First the wars. In 1979, then President Carter had a two week window in which to install a new government in Iran. But he lacked resolve and the opportunity fell by the wayside.

"Brzezinski still advocated a U.S. invasion to stabilize Iran. President Carter could not decide how to appropriately use force and opposed a U.S. coup."
Zbigniew Brzezinski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To those of you who lived through those years, "could not decide" and "Carter" being used in the same sentence should inspire an anxiety laden trip down a dark, dark memory lane. When Iran fell into the hands of Islamic terrorists, the US lost a critically important military ally. The Soviets were so thrilled at the site of Carters indecision and inaction that they invaded Afghanistan just a quick as they could assemble troops. The light was green and they were going (two million persons died in that war).

Had Carter followed the advice of his National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski, the Soviet Union would have thought long and hard about invading a nation neighboring a US ally and would have most likely stayed out, no Afghan/USSR War and no 9/11 . The Iran/Iraq War would have never happened (1.2 million persons died in that war). Iraq would have never invaded Kuwait, no first Iraq War and no second Iraq War. The twin towers would still be standing with no post 9/11 trauma leading to the economic downturn that followed. Carter thinking he could negotiate with Islamic terrorist lead to several unnecessary wars and a totalitarian Islamo-fascist theocratic terrorist state that executes minors and religious converts and is presently building nuclear weapons to use against Israel and the US.

Then their's the economy. Here's the link for the historical Misery Index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_index_(economics)

Carter holds the record for both the highest peak value and average over his entire presidency. GWB does quite a bit better that that. Reagan's numbers aren't that great, but remember, he inherited the Carter-nomics, stag-flation economy of Carter. Clinton fans should note that his highest rating comes before the Republican Revolution and his lowest rating comes after. Also keep in mind that the reforms that Newt Gingrich initiated were fought against by the White House tooth and Nail until they worked. Then Slick Willie shamelessly took credit for the effects of the Republican reforms that he opposed. Remember that the Federal government was shut down twice while the Republicans forced Clinton to agree to the spending cuts that went along with the tax cuts.

In December of 1980, we had 21.5% Prime Interest rates which basically meant that you couldn't borrow a nickel with a quarter for collateral. Every segment of the economy was crushed by these interest rates.

Prime Rate History

Reagan saw a 10.8 unemployment rate late in 1982. Since, unemployment is a lagging indicator and Carter had us employed through make-work programs during his tenure, Carter's unemployment numbers appear lower than was actually the case.

U.S. Unemployment Rate: SA, Percent

Consumer confidence tanked late in 1993 after America realized that Clinton and the Democratically controlled Congress had no intentions of keeping Clinton's promise of lowering taxes. In fact, people making as little as $20K/yr had their income tax rate increased from 11% to 15% (a 36% increase) by a reneging Clinton. They hit their highest levels after the government shut-down of 1996 that resulted in Clinton being made to eat his lunch by Speaker Gingrich. Yes, those were good years.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UMCSENT.txt

OMG.

How stupid do you have to be to believe that nonsense? What kind of wild, vile and completely unhinged belief makes someone think they had a 2 week window to overthrow a sovereign government in 1979, one that was an OVERTHROW of the government we HELPED CAUSE get overthrown?

Further, the nonsense goes on to predict:

A) The USSR would not invade Afghanistan

B) No 9/11.


Again, my question stands to anyone who wants to answer it:

How stupid do you have to be to believe such nonsense?

Like, FAUX News stoopid?