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Old 01-17-2009, 06:55 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
Reputation: 3676

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No one enjoys paying taxes but we all know we need roads, schools, etc... so we fork it over to Uncle Sam as we groan and moan. As much as we complain, most Americans do at least pay their taxes as good or bad, it is a responsibility we have to our society, our nation, and each other.

However, as it seems more the case today in our world of corporatism, not everyone feels this same responsibility.

GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens

Quote:
The Government Accountability Office (GAO) has just issued a report showing that most of the nation's largest public companies and government contractors rely on offshore subsidiaries to do business and cut their tax bills. Some of these same firms including big banks and insurers have already received tens of billions in taxpayer money from the federal bailout fund
Of course it is all perfectly legal.

Sens. Byron L. Dorgan (D-N.D.) and Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), who requested the report, said they hope to persuade President-elect Obama to make such shelters illegal. They estimate the U.S. Treasury loses $100 billion each year.

GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens - On Deadline - USATODAY.com
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,370 posts, read 4,628,301 times
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It was a surprise NOT to see AT&T in the list, but just about all of Big Oil and Big Banks were there.

But the report didn't have any dollar amounts associated with the offices, or business details of those off shore offices, so it is inconclusive to fry them with the information provided. They may have a legitimate reason to have 91 offices in Luxembourg.

Last edited by plannine; 01-17-2009 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,105 posts, read 6,623,979 times
Reputation: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens

GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens - On Deadline - USATODAY.com
Ya just gotta love the press -- what USAToday says in it's article (and what you did not mention in your post) is ....
83 of the 100 largest publicly traded corporations and
63 of the 100 largest federal contractors

Yes, 83 of 100 equals 83% however, am I the only one who finds the usage of 83% rather deceptive?

According to Statistics of U.S. Businesses- 2006 Tabulations by Enterprise Size (guess this is the latest data they have) there are 953 firms with 10,000 or more employees. I'd call them big companies.
If 83% of these 953 big firms use offshore tax havens - that would be 791 of them doing it. Quite a difference from 83.

Great way to sell newspapers but the sad thing is -- how many people will walk around telling others it is 83% NOT 83 of the top 100.

Having said that - yea, it sucks.
What especially sucks is that smaller companies get stuck with big tax rates like the big boys. They pay their fair share - there are no loop holes to jump through for them.

Quote:
Searching the Securities and Exchange Commission's public database, the Post says, the GAO found that 83 of the 100 largest publicly traded corporations and 63 of the 100 largest federal contractors maintain subsidiaries in countries generally considered havens for avoiding taxes. GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens - On Deadline - USATODAY.com
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:42 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vec101 View Post
Ya just gotta love the press -- what USAToday says in it's article (and what you did not mention in your post) is ....
83 of the 100 largest publicly traded corporations and
63 of the 100 largest federal contractors

Yes, 83 of 100 equals 83% however, am I the only one who finds the usage of 83% rather deceptive?

According to Statistics of U.S. Businesses- 2006 Tabulations by Enterprise Size (guess this is the latest data they have) there are 953 firms with 10,000 or more employees. I'd call them big companies.
If 83% of these 953 big firms use offshore tax havens - that would be 791 of them doing it. Quite a difference from 83.

Great way to sell newspapers but the sad thing is -- how many people will walk around telling others it is 83% NOT 83 of the top 100.

Having said that - yea, it sucks.
What especially sucks is that smaller companies get stuck with big tax rates like the big boys. They pay their fair share - there are no loop holes to jump through for them.
I didn't consider that at all, but I can see how some might. It does say:

Quote:
GAO: 83% of big U.S companies, contractors use offshore tax havens
Here nor there, it is just yet another example of how corporatism has run a muck.

If nothing else, it says to me that our tax system, while fairly reasonable, at least in intent is grossly abused, not to mention how it places into contrast the corporate responsibility to making profit at the expense of national interests.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:56 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,127 posts, read 10,239,565 times
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Yep, they don't like to pay taxes, yet they have no problems taking taxpayer funded bail out money .... Hmmm, something is very wrong with this picture. As long as politicians need immense amounts of money to get elected to office and candidates have to sell their souls to corporate interests, this is unlikely to change.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
858 posts, read 2,006,105 times
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Makes me want to take out my savings, cd, and checking accounts from citibank and stop working for the largest pharmaceutical in the world.
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:19 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
Yep, they don't like to pay taxes, yet they have no problems taking taxpayer funded bail out money .... Hmmm, something is very wrong with this picture. As long as politicians need immense amounts of money to get elected to office and candidates have to sell their souls to corporate interests, this is unlikely to change.
Thing is, I look at corporations like someone might look at a lion in the wild for instance. When a lion runs down a gazelle and rips its throat out before eating it, we all cringe and feel sadness to see such a thing. However the lion cannot help being a lion, it is what nature designed it to do, eat other animals and it does it well, that is its purpose. Well a corporation is by its design a creature that makes money and it does what it does quite efficiently as well. It is not evil or even bad, it is just doing what it has been created to do. The difference being that unlike nature, we can alter the habits of the corporation through design.

When corporations are doing what they do best, all is well, but when corporations become so pervasive they start eating kids on the sidewalk or gobbling up everything, including small businesses, start ups, individual entrepreneurs, invention, etc... then either the corporation has become too many in number to be healthy to an economic ecosystem or it has become rabid and kills for the sake of killing.

I just think we have let bounds and parameters of how the corporation operates run too loose and free and in the course of seeking efficiency, it will even operate contrary to any greater national interest. Corporations know no national boundaries and since they are designed to make profit above all other things, they will gladly sacrifice the nation of their founding in order to achieve greater profit. This is not their fault as much as it is ours.
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,665 posts, read 3,407,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
No one enjoys paying taxes but we all know we need roads, schools, etc... so we fork it over to Uncle Sam as we groan and moan. As much as we complain, most Americans do at least pay their taxes as good or bad, it is a responsibility we have to our society, our nation, and each other.

However, as it seems more the case today in our world of corporatism, not everyone feels this same responsibility. . . . .
Are you referring to Obama's nominee for Treasury Sec?
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:34 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LNTT_Vacationer View Post
Are you referring to Obama's nominee for Treasury Sec?
Apparently he doesn't like paying taxes either.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,665 posts, read 3,407,525 times
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Solution is too simple. Stop collecting taxes from corporations and stop giving them taxpayer money.
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