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Old 01-20-2009, 10:56 AM
 
1,079 posts, read 1,558,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukester View Post
Ok, since the OP topic was with Lincoln in short Lincoln probably wouldn't be in today's GOP, too much hate and divide.
Ok, since I can't refute anything you're saying about JFK, I'll get out on a technicality and go back to the original topic, since it's convenient for me.

Yeah, that's more like it.

Anyway, Lincoln...Lincoln wanted to send blacks back to Africa...Democrats need blacks to keep getting elected...so I would say, no, he probably wouldn't have much of a place in the modern Democrat party.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:40 AM
 
4,455 posts, read 3,579,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Ok, since I can't refute anything you're saying about JFK, I'll get out on a technicality and go back to the original topic, since it's convenient for me.

Yeah, that's more like it.

Anyway, Lincoln...Lincoln wanted to send blacks back to Africa...Democrats need blacks to keep getting elected...so I would say, no, he probably wouldn't have much of a place in the modern Democrat party.
Lincoln wanted to send Blacks back to Africa? Show me a link to substantiate your claim! I guess it all depends what you read. I just spend the last 30 minutes looking at websites containing information about the History behind Lincoln. One of the sights did mention that Lincoln initially wanted to send the Blacks back to Africa but later came to the conclusion that there would be complex implications involved and had a change of heart. Another website I went to makes no mention of your claim so I just don't know.

I never did say that Lincoln would fit in as a Democrat but I will say this and stand by this. I could see him more as a Dem than I could a Repulb. Given these facts on how he created a bigger government a no no to the modern day GOP and also the fact that he reinvested in the country e.g. the completion the Great Northern Railroad and other notable achievments. He was some sort of an environmentalist though not extreme. He had curiosity and vision unlike the modern base GOP. Case in point Sarah (I'm Stupid) Palin.

To sit there and claim that Dems need Blacks to win elections is stupid. There you go showing your true colors!
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,456 posts, read 12,690,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
It seems odd hearing Republicans refer to Abraham Lincoln as their president even though they don't really honor President Lincoln. When the GOP went after the Southerner "racist" vote during Nixon they knew these former-Democrats hated Lincoln but that they hated blacks & gays even more. Frankly, I want to vomit when somebody like Bush speaks of Lincoln as a great Republican even though the 2 presidents have absolutely nothing in common.

Would Abraham Lincoln be proud of the Republican party of today? NO!

Ironically I see very few conservatives who are Republicans today. Or was that Republicans who are conservatives?
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:40 PM
 
1,079 posts, read 1,558,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukester View Post
Lincoln wanted to send Blacks back to Africa? Show me a link to substantiate your claim! I guess it all depends what you read. I just spend the last 30 minutes looking at websites containing information about the History behind Lincoln. One of the sights did mention that Lincoln initially wanted to send the Blacks back to Africa but later came to the conclusion that there would be complex implications involved and had a change of heart. Another website I went to makes no mention of your claim so I just don't know.
So you found a link that substantiated my claim. Cool.

I think it's pretty well accepted that this was an idea of his. Then there's the quote about saving the union...if he could save the union and keep the slaves, he would have been more than happy to do so.

Quote:
I never did say that Lincoln would fit in as a Democrat but I will say this and stand by this. I could see him more as a Dem than I could a Repulb. Given these facts on how he created a bigger government a no no to the modern day GOP and also the fact that he reinvested in the country e.g. the completion the Great Northern Railroad and other notable achievments. He was some sort of an environmentalist though not extreme. He had curiosity and vision unlike the modern base GOP. Case in point Sarah (I'm Stupid) Palin.
You don't think modern republicans would have supported building the railroad? Wouldn't that be a big business? Kinda like everyone accuses Republicans being in bed with?

And I think Bush set aside more land for preservation than any other president...would have to look a little for a link, but I distinctly remember hearing something like that.

Quote:
To sit there and claim that Dems need Blacks to win elections is stupid. There you go showing your true colors!
Seriously?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4390550.shtml

Lyndon Johnson was the last Democratic presidential candidate to win a majority of the white vote.

http://www.slate.com/id/2204251/

Obama got 53 percent of the broad electorate to vote for him but only 43 percent of the white electorate

Yeah...my True Colors: The Truth
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:55 PM
 
39,995 posts, read 24,249,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
Yes but HOW many years ago was the Civil War? These people act as if it were during their lifetimes.

I know it's hard to understand, but for the Deep South, the effects of the Civil War continued well into the 20th Century. Reconstruction stripped the South of any economic wealth it had remaining post-war. Resources were transferred to the hands of northern investors, the hated Carpetbaggers. The policies of the nation kept the South poor and without power fearing the very idea that the "South would rise again!" The Depression was devastating to the nation, but even more to the South that was already poverty-stricken. So in some places that legacy of poverty, the inadequate education programs, the lack of economic opportunities, the scarcity of financial investment, that legacy is part of the reality of today.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:57 PM
 
6,013 posts, read 6,901,409 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Ok, since I can't refute anything you're saying about JFK, I'll get out on a technicality and go back to the original topic, since it's convenient for me.

Yeah, that's more like it.

Anyway, Lincoln...Lincoln wanted to send blacks back to Africa...Democrats need blacks to keep getting elected...so I would say, no, he probably wouldn't have much of a place in the modern Democrat party.

-the red bold is true, he also supported northern antebelum laws which was similar or harsher to southern black code laws

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Old 01-20-2009, 02:09 PM
 
39,995 posts, read 24,249,026 times
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I think you have to look at what the Republicans of that time advocated, and what they stand for now. It's not like the Republican party of 1860 was the GOP. They were a brand-new party. There weren't just two parties on the ballots back then, and the Republican nominees weren't even on the ballots in most Southern states. The Republicans wanted a strong Federal government. They wanted to reduce states' rights, and in particular, the influence wielded by the Southern bloc of states. The Republicans of today say they are for less government, less spending. That was not the ideals of the Republican Party of 1860, and certainly not of Lincoln. The net effect of the Civil War politically was to significantly extend federal authority, at the cost of state's rights, and it's a trend that has continued right up to today. Given that, I think Lincoln would not be a member of today's GOP.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:17 PM
 
6,013 posts, read 6,901,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
Abe Lincoln would not have wanted to be associated with the party of Robert KKK Byrd and the Democrats that voted against civil rights in the 1960's (ex. Al Gore Sr.). Byrd filibustered the civil rights bill of 1964 for 14 hours. Lincoln was the first Republican president and would be a Republican today...
'

come on out and say you embrace jesse helms, LBJ passed it and would ave anyway thes people like al gore sr are the types who ture republican ony idiots will nt acknowledge the parties went thru transformations and it started with democrats and FDR,truman-who desegregated the military (something no republican) did which angered many whites esp southern democrat delegates,

if we use common sense today he would be affiliated with democrats not southern strategy republicans, if wee use your technic about him not wanting to associate with a party becase of certain individuals then He's be no republican nor democrat,how about the barry goldwater and senator NO!
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:40 AM
 
30 posts, read 16,693 times
Reputation: 27
Lincoln wouldn't be in either, first because he wouldn't recognize the today's government as remotely similar to the government of his day. He would have been appalled at the scale of political corruption and interference by foreign governments in our internal affairs and the routine looting of the treasury by special interests. He would probably weep, curse every politician he could find and then move to Canada.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:37 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,560,929 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by roberta View Post
He would be embarrassed by both the Repub, and Demo parties. He would most likely be an Independent--and reform the whole mess. Neither party measures up to Lincoln's "Independent" way of thinking. What made him so great, was that he was a "reformer".and not a slave to Political thinking, as we know it today. It really "irks" me that either Dems, or Repubs, today, claim to be an inheiritor of his way of thinking. If he were alive today, he probably would be far removed from all of them. We have no person now, who is even close to being worthy of being compared to Lincoln.
Geeeeezzz....watch your phraseology..."slave to Political thinking"? That might not set too well with some now that OB is in the White House! Heh, heh.

But seriously. Your right. Even the founders must be turning over in their graves. The government has become everything they feared about government. We have Nanny Fed (especially now, and it's going to get worse...check out the White House Website).

What would fix things really fast right now is a good healthy dose of real conservatism in the style of Ronald Wilson Reagan.

But don't worry. I think it will be along shortly. Remember it took Jimmy Carter to get us back to some real conservatism too, and the country prospered for a good many years after that. OB is Jimmy Carter II.

We can only hope that much of his agenda can be blocked, but I don't think this crop of Republicans has the will (even if they had the votes) to do it. So, we're just going to have to buck-up and get through it.
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