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Old 01-21-2009, 10:12 AM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,558,885 times
Reputation: 5930

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
When I heard about this incident I was saddened but not surprised. Over the past generation the political discourse in this country has degenerated to the level of what one would find at a sporting event attended by yahoos. Those on this post who have voiced such animus toward Bush reflect the pathology in our body politic. The call for an era of post-partisanship and a coming together as one is drowned by the taunting, chanting mob.

In my business (I'm an attorney) I've learned that there are two sides to every story. Bush's detractors are either unaware or don't care that for eight years they have heard only one side of the story of the Bush presidency. Contrast the seamless Obama transition that was made possible by a gracious George Bush with the vandalizing of the West Wing of the White House by the departing Clintonites. And it was downhill from there.

People will argue, as some have on this post, that Bush was fair game because, having stolen the election in 2000, his presidency was illegitimate from the start. In fact that was the start of the Bush myth that has dominated the storyline for eight years. Two points about the "stolen" election of 2000: 7 of 9 Supreme Court justices found that the way Gore (and the Florida supreme court) wanted to recount the votes was unconstitutional. It treated votes differently and thus violated the Equal Protection clause of the U.S. Constitution. So it wasn't only the conservative justices that said the recount was unfair. Secondly, there were several recounts, statewide, that were actually performed. Bush won each of them, including that done by a consortium of newspapers lead by the New York Times. So much for a stolen election. But never let it be said that liberals let facts get in the way of their agenda.

So from day one Bush was a president under siege. The "stolen election" mantra justified the Dems delaying the staffing of Bush's administration until the middle of the summer. One wonders how much that contributed to our unpreparedness on 9-11. Indeed the FBI replacement for Louis Freeh, Robert Mueller, was not approved by Congress until Sept. 4, 2001. Freeh had left his post in early June.

In April 2001 Bush attended a Summit of the Americas in Canada and was met by protestors. He hadn't done anything yet. But still the Left was angry at him. The argument (slogans, really) that "Bush lied and people died" or that "Bush shredded the Constitution" and those are the reasons that people hate him so much is so much malarkey. Bush was hated before he even ascended to the office and any excuse was used by his enemies to rationalize their hatred. Bush lied? That charge was investigated ad nauseum and was thoroughtly debunked. Bush operated on the intelligence that was available, as did Congress in authorizing the use of force in Iraq. Of course, when the war took a turn for the worse, the sunshine patriots were ready to raise the white flag and resorted to calling Bush a liar to justify their perfidy. Bush shredded the Constitution? Name one American citizen who has had his rights violated under the Patriot Act--again an Act is something authorized by Congress and then signed into law by the president. I said American. I don't particularly care about the "rights" of terrorists captured on the battlefield.

Admittedly the handling of the war in Iraq was bungled, largely because of Rumsfeld. In wartime that happens. How many commanding generals did Lincoln go through before he settled on Grant and how many Union soldiers died because of the incompetence of his predecessors? Shouldn't those deaths be laid at Lincoln's doorstep or does that standard apply only to George Bush.

The economy? Bush inherited a recession that was exacerbated by the devastation of 9/11. But his policies lifted us out of that recession and we had 4 plus years of prosperity and job creation. It all went bust in his last year largely because of policies put in place by Congress that ensured that low income people would be provided home loans even if they did not have the means to re-pay them. Remember Barney Frank's infamous quip when the administration raised the alarm about the unsustainable exposure of Fannie and Freddie to bad mortgages: "I'd prefer to roll the dice a little longer" before clamping down on these risky lending practices.

Is the economy bad? Yes. Is it as bad as we have seen in three generations, as some pol said yesterday? No. Seven per cent unemployment is a far cry from the 24% unemployment of the Great Depression. But it serves an expansionist government agenda to exaggerate the problem so that scared people will go along with any measure characterized as "rescue." So much for replacing fear with hope.

I could go on. But I think I've made my point. There are two sides to this story and, hopefully, history will recount both sides and render a fair assessment of Bush's presidency. Although I'm not optimistic. The history books tend to be written by liberals.
Senator Kennedy collapses at Senate Inaugural lunch

When you read through the above thread and the last post, please, come back and tell us about all the naughty disrepectful Democrats
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,824,973 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Don't understand what you're trying to say with the statement I highlighted? I was around for the Carter years. They were horrible. Much worse than the years of W. Bush. The protest you mention did not happen during the inauguration. It happened during the Florida recount. Some people got fed up with Al Gore and his lawyers and went to the Vice President's home to protest telling him to get out of Cheney's house. Several news agencies went to Florida following the Supreme Court's ruling. After they did their own recount even they concluded that Bush won the election.
And Americans are sick of Bush.
Same same.

The Carter years showed actual inflation and suggested that we cut back, conserve, etc. Ha ha, he was right. The inflation rate was up to 19%. I bought my first house at 16%.

I was around for the Carter years, too. I didn't find them horrible, at all.

I can't read the color that you highlighted with. Sorry.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Louisiana and Pennsylvania
2,756 posts, read 5,322,535 times
Reputation: 2685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverking View Post
WHo didnt love it when the crowd started singing that to Bush. Good Riddance to the worst president in history
Well,

As someone who supported and admired Obama from the time he read his speech in '04 to his election and thereafter, I thought this display towards Mr. Bush was downright disrespectful. The man is leaving and he and the public are aware that he made many mistakes and bad decisions. I'm sure he has enough guilt to deal with. Why spit in his face, especially at the inauguration of a new president?

OK..So I didn't care for Bush or his policies. There is no rule that mandates I have to like him personally or professionally. At least the man deserved a measure of basic respect on his last day. When the booing, jeering and the rest of the shenanigans took place, I hung my head in shame. I thought we were better than that, but I was wrong.

I'm focusing my own energy on supporting Mr. Obama during his term, not wasting and expending it pouncing on someone who is down and out.

I may and will disagree with a person's bad decisions and wrongful actions in the performance of their duties, but would never disrespect them, ever.

Last edited by Gil3; 01-21-2009 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,671,396 times
Reputation: 1024
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
He is not popular with anyone including his wife. How can you say that. Military familes want to put a weapon in his hand and send him over to that hell hole God forsaken place and fight some one elses fight. You are a discrace to the miliitary if you feel that way. How dare you. You insulted me as well as anyone who has served.

You are only one of 9 people left on the face of the earth who like that usleless waste of human flesh. Dont brag about it.

I'm a disgrace to the military? I served in the Army and was in OIF, so I would like to know how that is disgraceful. Please don't lecture me on military families when I am one and I have contact with others that were in my unit. Once again we have some one who claims to be pro military but yet attacks those of us who served in it. You are the sad human being.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,646,769 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brill View Post
Get your facts straight please. Did Bush screw up? Sure. Your post makes him sound like another Hitler or Stalin which is far from the truth.
He is a Dictator, at least he inspired to be one and acted like one.

In the immortal grobbling by a Dictator in shame:


"If this were a Dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, so long as I was the Dictator".

"I am The Decider and I decide what's best".

"The sole difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is that the leaders are popularly elected by the masses of people rather than by seizing office by force, being appointed by an elite or by assuming power via a fixed election". (remember ol bushy lost the popular vote despite fixed elections like in Florida? So his courts just appointed him despite what the people wanted)

After he lost that election, he publicly proclaimed himself "The Ruler"

"The war made me do it" was his answer when asked about his assults on rule of law. How professional !

5-9-07 bushy signs into law a bill giving himself full dictatorship in the event of a catastrophic event. This "event" was never defined.

There's a few for ya.
Most foriegn leaders rutenly call him a Dictator.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,646,769 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packersnut21 View Post
I'm a disgrace to the military? I served in the Army and was in OIF, so I would like to know how that is disgraceful. Please don't lecture me on military families when I am one and I have contact with others that were in my unit. Once again we have some one who claims to be pro military but yet attacks those of us who served in it. You are the sad human being.
You took that wrong....kinda. Sorry for the way I put that. I do put you down and I would put any military person down who attempted to say one good thing about ol bushy. I lived in Norfolk/Va Beach for many years while I did my time in the CG. Almost all my neighbors were military. They all not only want bushy to withdraw from that fake illegal undeclared war but they want him to be burried 6' under.

Just be delighted the bum is gone now. Maybe you and your friends can come home soon. We dont belong there as it is not our fight to fight. Lets just concentate on trying this bum for war crimes against humanity.

Good day to you...........
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,824,973 times
Reputation: 11318
Hey Packersnut, I have you twitted because you're not worth responding to.
If desert didn't quote you, I wouldn't be responding now.

Did you see the comments that supported my rape assertions.
There were dozens of links in one of the posts.
Want to comment on that? Dozens of links, credible reports, all of them lies according to you.

I have never said I was pro-military. You are lying if you assert that.

I am not pro-military. I am anti-military; anti-war. I'm already against the next war.
I have worked in and around the military and community for over 30 years.
You did what? 4 max? You've been out for a year, I believe you said.
So you're talking of your memories, not of present realities.

Not everyone in, around or a veteran of, the military thinks like you.
Thank ford.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,823,323 times
Reputation: 13083
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
BUT he was our president and I think it's gauche for people to taunt him on such a momentous day as the one during which he leaves the Oval Office. Unnecessary, IMO.
Wouldn't that be akin to saying we should have respect for Hitler, Stalin, Ivan the Terrible, etc. just because they were heads of state?
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,671,396 times
Reputation: 1024
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Hey Packersnut, I have you twitted because you're not worth responding to.
If desert didn't quote you, I wouldn't be responding now.

Did you see the comments that supported my rape assertions.
There were dozens of links in one of the posts.
Want to comment on that? Dozens of links, credible reports, all of them lies according to you.

I have never said I was pro-military. You are lying if you assert that.

I am not pro-military. I am anti-military; anti-war. I'm already against the next war.
I have worked in and around the military and community for over 30 years.
You did what? 4 max? You've been out for a year, I believe you said.
So you're talking of your memories, not of present realities.

Not everyone in, around or a veteran of, the military thinks like you.
Thank ford.

I was in 6 years and 2 years IRR and was in OIF so I think I have a handle on what is going on right now thank you.

Does rape happen? yes. The military tires it's best but sometimes bad people get through the cracks it happens. They get punished for what they have done. However your posts paint the picture that when we go over there we just start shooting any and everyone and rape who ever we feel like. Sorry that isn't the way it is. You post links to stories, I have first hand experience over there. Say what you want about members of the military not thinking like me but President Bush had something like a 60+ approval rating with us last time I saw.

I am not sitting here saying President Bush was prefect, he made mistakes. I take offense to people saying disgusting hateful things about and our troops as you have done on multiple occasions.

I wish President Obama the best and hope he can take the country and lead us out of these troubled times.
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,646,769 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Wouldn't that be akin to saying we should have respect for Hitler, Stalin, Ivan the Terrible, etc. just because they were heads of state?
Speak for only yourself. He was not nor will he ever be my president. In fact history will show he was a Dictator, not a president.

I dont even feel he was in any position to lead. He was not even elected, he was appointed by members of his crime family. May the popular vote be damned.
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