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Not on the 500 Greatest Gospel Hits of All Time list of very many fundies. They don't really get much into the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican either [Luke 18:9-14]. Pretty puzzling...
Yesterday both Presidents Obama & Bush attended together a Christian prayer service in a church. After that at the inaugural Christian pastors prayed at the start & end of the swearing in of Obama. Today all of Obama's administration attended another Christian prayer service where they prayed to Christ.
Does it make you a little uncomfortable that our secular government is so close to the Christian faith?
I'm not a Christian, and I must say, it doesn't bother me if government officials want to make their religious services public; that's entirely their business, as is their particular religious affiliation. As to comfort, I'm comfortable so long as their religious beliefs are not being pushed down my throat/in my face, etc., here in a country where the Constitution mandates a separation of Church and State.
You have some good points Saganista, and I understand where you're coming from.
But even when I wasn't a christian, public prayer like this never bothered me. Obama is a self proclaimed christian, and he wanted a prayer to Jesus for himself, his family and his administration. The way I see it, he has that right as an American citizen--even if he is president. If he were Jewish or Bhuddist, it would not bother me one bit if he did one of those prayers, because it is an expression of his personal faith. he wants God to bless him and it is his right to seek that blessing however he sees fit.
I see you are an ally of the Flying Imams. Otherwise, you are perfectly welcome to pray in public places. If someone tries to restrain you, call the ACLU. They are very good at dealing with those sorts of people.
If someone tries to restrain me, I'll finish my sign of the cross with a backfist to the mush.
So you are functionally illiterate. A 7th-grader should be flunked for misconstruing "what becomes troublesome" into "I was troubled".
What skill or training allows you to perceive the thoughts of a person you've never met from 3,000 miles away by watching brief cuts of him on TV? You're in an even lower league than Bill Frist claiming to diagnose Terri Schiavo by studying a videotape. Ludicrous.
Learn more about either nihilism or Michael Newdow. Maybe study a little law before presuming to pronounce over it also...at least enough to learn the difference between Dred Scott and Plessy v Ferguson...
Having interacted in the past with Yeledaf on this forum, I have come to understand through my own magical powers of perception that English is likely not this person's first language and I cut him or her a little slack accordingly. It seems like an appropriate thing to do. Wouldn't you agree?
As for your post, perhaps people who live in grammatically incorrect glass houses ought to not throw improperly punctuated stones.
FYI, you would seem, according to my innate magical powers of perception, to be in the 9% of Americans who disapproved of Rick Warren's selection.
That's a really dangerous assertion, specifically, that Democrats and those on the left are less Christian or less than Christian. Is this what you're implying? Do we really need a religious war on top of all our other national problems? Do you want a country where people have to PROVE their worthiness?
I don't want a religious war, but war has already been declared on me. Just read some of the usual anti-religious anti-First Amendment posters here on this forum talking about what should, or should not, be allowed. What? Are you kidding me? There's no "allowed" involved. The First Amendment is still in effect and, therefore, I don't need anyone's OK to practice my religion as I see fit. The same First Amendment applies to Rick Warren, GWB and BHO. If Jews don't like it they can go to Israel, Muslims can go to the Middle East and Atheists can thank God they live in a nation that doesn't kill them for not practicing the local religion.
Yesterday both Presidents Obama & Bush attended together a Christian prayer service in a church. After that at the inaugural Christian pastors prayed at the start & end of the swearing in of Obama. Today all of Obama's administration attended another Christian prayer service where they prayed to Christ.
Does it make you a little uncomfortable that our secular government is so close to the Christian faith?
There are reasons that you should, whatever your personal religous stance might be. Religious freedom depends entirely, and religious tolerance depends significantly, upon government staying out of the religious picture, save for protecting individual rights. As soon as the state may warrant that THIS is the GOOD religion...THIS is the one that WE think is best, the religious rights of those believing otherwise are compromised. Nothing worthwhile is gained from having the Ten Commandments in any courthouse nor by having In God We Trust on the currency. The only result is that those of the favored faith are told that they are better. All others are told that they don't measure up. Under our laws, none of that is the business of government. They should get out of it.
Atheism is a religious belief system. It denies a Creator and dismisses our responsibility to something greater than ourselves. Sorry, you can't impose your religious beliefs on the rest of us by claiming that Atheism isn't a religion. That just makes Atheism our default State Religion and you know that. When G. Washington was sworn in as President, he did so both times on a Bible. None of the founders who were present corrected him. End of story. This is what Washington had to say about religious tolerance.
"...the Government of the United States ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ... May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy."
Our nation is NOT a secular nation. The words separation of Church and state are not in the constitution. The first amendment is worded like this:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
The term "separation of church and state" was originally used in some writings by Thomas Jefferson, but this wording is not used in the Bill of Rights, The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, etc. God is invoked in these documents. Here is the first sentence of the preamble of the Declaration of Independence as one example:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Where does the OP get the assumption that we are a secular nation? This nation was unapologetically established as a Christian nation by our founding fathers. They implicitly stated that the government would not establish a state religion so all could practice the religion of their choice in complete freedom. That is far from being a secular nation.
Go re-read the words of our founding fathers. This nation was founded for the glory of God on a biblical foundation. No other nation is as explicitly Christian as this country is and has been from its inception by its founders.
Last edited by Saintmarks; 01-22-2009 at 01:16 AM..
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