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Here's a thoroughly radical notion, given the OP's original question (I ask you to go along with me on this, even though some will be shaking their heads in disbelief): suppose, just for a moment, that Barack Obama is actually the President of the United States...neither more nor less! I know, it's dangerous to advance ideas like this, but I just couldn't help myself.
Careful! That's heresy you're flirting with there, friend.
I always get a kick out of how ‘polarized’ (like usual) folks get when they discuss matters such as this. It’s all black and white. Everyone knows it all.
Some of you make comments like (paraphrasing), ‘if so-and-so wants to get comfort from Middle East fairytales then let him delude himself.’ And blah, blah, blah. Really? What is it that we should get comfort out of? A bottle? A needle? Snorting a line? Fox news? CNN? A damn Playboy? What? Are any of those any better? Why don’t you let people get comfort out of what they like. If it means something to them, then why not leave them alone rather than belittling them? Live and let live (unless your rights are being trampled upon).
I’m not particularly religious. I have guesses. But that’s all they are. I have no idea what comes after death. And you know what? Neither do a single one of you! Yes, REALLY! We are all gamblers. Take your bet. You can bet on Christianity. Atheism. Taoism. Hinduism. Shamanism. Witchcraft. Satanism. Multidimensionalism. Reincarnation. Dream State. Etc. Whatever you like. Pick the one that you feel is most likely to be reality and that fits your world view best.
Belief is 100% irrelevant in determining reality. It means NOTHING. What you believe will not change what IS. You can accept and believe atheism as reality. You can accept and believe Christianity as reality. You can accept and believe whatever as reality. But you don’t know. You can’t.
One thing we do know is that our days here are numbered. Once we die, we either cease to exist, meaning the atheists were correct (note to atheists: you won’t be able to gloat, because you will no longer exist). On the other hand, if one of the world religions has it right, then we will continue on and find that out. It will be interesting to see what happens exactly after we kick the bucket, if anything.
But, at this point, don’t you see that arguing over it and belittling other’s religious/philosophical points of view is futile and just an exercise in your over-inflated ego? You don’t know! You can’t. Believe what you like, but you don’t KNOW. Your belief means abxolutely zilch, nada, nothing in the grand scheme of things. We can’t all be right, even though each of us seem to ‘know’ we are. It’s impossible. Place you bet, cross your fingers, shut up, and wait to find out! Sheeeeesh!
Now that we've gotten that out of the way... let me tell you the way it really is... kidding!
Armaggedon is a small fraud within a really big one
Back in the 4th century, when the bible was originally compiled, the book of Revelation was almost left out. It barely squeaked in. In those days, the book was said to have referred to Nero (64 AD) as 'the Beast'. Because that didn't pan out, it was considered by many Bishops of the time to be a spurious book.
The book was included anyway and ever since then, people have been seeing 'Armaggedon' in various centuries. A large part of Europe thought it would be in 999 AD. - didn't happen. Later on, Napoleon was widely believed to be 'the Beast'. The Catholic church fostered this view among the peasants, because they wanted the peasants to fight against his civil reforms. The next main event was when spiritualism became popular in the US in the 19th century. The old cartoons with a man walking around in a sandwich board proclaiming 'The end is near' makes fun of how prevalent this notion was.
The modern version of 'the sky is falling (yet again)' is actually fostered by Jewish interests, trying to stir up blind support for Israel among our more feeble-minded fellow citizens. Alone, Jewish interests in this country would get little attention. There are too few Jews to matter politically. There are millions and millions of gullible Christian Fundamentalists, however. The Jews use Christian Fundamentalists as a megaphone to vote Jews into office and from there they can corrupt and skew our political process.
Armaggedon is 'big business' for the Jews. They engineer and publish all sorts of 'isn't that amazing' writing about the signs of the approaching doom. But don't think for a second that they actually believe the crap they write. It can be quite convincing - if it you don't know that the Old Testament, the Jewish Torah, is simply a made up text from 536 BC to bamboozle their own people into paying taxes (tithing to the Temple). If the Old Testament is a fake, then the Christian 'testament' built upon this false text, of necessity, is also false. It is just a handy means of scaring or convincing people into following whatever idiot program you want them to do. You convince by religion when logic makes your program look asinine.
Another related thing. A lot of people think 'Jesus never lived'. They point to the lack of contemporary or near contemporary historical references to him. Most Christian Fundamentalists say the Jewish historian Josephus wrote about him. This reference, however, has been known to be a forgery since at least the 17th century. It was spuriously placed in an existing text of Josephus by an over ambitious Dark Ages monk.
At the same time they continue to crow about the spurious one, they ignore the really good references to Jesus living as a man that come down to us from history. It is the history of the first Jewish Bishops of Jerusalem, James the Just, Simeon, etc. During the first 150 years of the church in Jerusalem the first bishops were direct RELATIVES OF JESUS! Early on, the Roman church (Catholic church) acknowledged this and details of this history were preserved in documents about the early church.
The problem to 'the-bible-is-true, every-word-of-it' people, is these really good historical validations of Jesus as 'real person' acknowledge Jesus' direct familial relation to the bishops but they categorically and specifically denied Jesus was ever the 'Messiah' and say only that he was a teacher! This was terribly inconvenient to the Greek Bishops of 2nd and 3rd century Antioch and Rome who were busy myth-making Jesus into the 'son of god'. Now - who would know better who Jesus really was - his own relatives or some bishops, who never met him, with agendas to pursue?
The book of Revelation comes from that very same Greek school of early Christian myth-making. A lot of these people were known liars and pushers of hidden agendas. Others were outright loons. I wouldn't put too much stock in the book of Revelation as 'true'. It comes out of a tradition of cataclysmic lying.
Here's a thoroughly radical notion, given the OP's original question (I ask you to go along with me on this, even though some will be shaking their heads in disbelief): suppose, just for a moment, that Barack Obama is actually the President of the United States...neither more nor less! I know, it's dangerous to advance ideas like this, but I just couldn't help myself.
Maybe in some states... of mind. Including the one called hopeless.
Obama's only human and it is apparent... Remember-- he even admits that there will be false starts and setbacks.
As far as Bush deceiving the world-- you are on the right track there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotik
Hey everyone, I haven't been on in a while, but I have some thoughts that I'd like to share and get your opinion on, hopefully without being attacked! I am not a christian, however I've been listening to this guy that comes on about 11pm. Van Impe Ministries or something... He is stuck on Revelation, so I decided to pick up the Bible and read the prophecies that he speaks of and how they are taking place.
I believe that Rev 18 all speaks of the USA. They say that the deceptive beast comes before the Messiah. After looking at the ugly mess that Bush has gotten us all into, how he's manipulated and deceived the world, I can't help but identify him as that beast! Especially after thinking back to President Obama's campaign, and then yesterday watching the inauguration with his hard but inspirational and clear cut message to the world. I feel as if Barack Obama is the ONE! It all fits... The world is listening, he speaks peace...
What are your thoughts on this? I can't talk about this anywhere else with extremely diverse views but here, so I hope you can shed your own light on what I'm thinking...
I know that only time will tell what Obama does, but as a very spiritual (not religious) person I know that he is a healer, a very positive and peaceful person. If what is said in revelation is true and prophecy then I believe that Obama is the ONE!
Hey everyone, I haven't been on in a while, but I have some thoughts that I'd like to share and get your opinion on, hopefully without being attacked! I am not a christian, however I've been listening to this guy that comes on about 11pm. Van Impe Ministries or something... He is stuck on Revelation, so I decided to pick up the Bible and read the prophecies that he speaks of and how they are taking place.
I believe that Rev 18 all speaks of the USA. They say that the deceptive beast comes before the Messiah. After looking at the ugly mess that Bush has gotten us all into, how he's manipulated and deceived the world, I can't help but identify him as that beast! Especially after thinking back to President Obama's campaign, and then yesterday watching the inauguration with his hard but inspirational and clear cut message to the world. I feel as if Barack Obama is the ONE! It all fits... The world is listening, he speaks peace...
What are your thoughts on this? I can't talk about this anywhere else with extremely diverse views but here, so I hope you can shed your own light on what I'm thinking...
I know that only time will tell what Obama does, but as a very spiritual (not religious) person I know that he is a healer, a very positive and peaceful person. If what is said in revelation is true and prophecy then I believe that Obama is the ONE!
Hi,
Well. that's very interesting.
For some background..I was raised Lutheran.. but through the years I've taken more to being "spiritual" and do not believe that any one church actually has it all right in regards to God..etc. So I am a spiritual person.
As for George Bush as "the beast"... well I'm not a Bush fan, by any means.. but I really do not feel that you can categorize him as a beast.
See.. to be a "beast" as referred to in Revelations he would have to be .. well evil. While we may not agree with the things that Bush has done, what you need to do is look for the true intentions BEHIND the actions. Sometimes, although someone has the best intentions, what they do is not always the outcome they want. I tend to feel that Bush was a)acting with good intentions (which would mean he's not evil and b) he was also somewhat of a puppet for those in his administration and may have gotten some bad advice by people who may not have been evil in the revelations kind of sense but was ..well not good or had the best intentions.
I do agree that Obama is a healer of sorts.. heal this nation on many levels.. including race.
True evil is the likes of Sadaam or more importantly Bin Laden.. Hitler was also examples of the revelation type of evil that the bible speaks of.
But.. I have to say that while I believe in God and all that, I don't neccesarily believe everything the bible says. I do not believe that there would be an end of days as the bible fortells. Rough times and challenging times are ahead, without a doubt.. but I do not believe we'll cease to exist as a race.
Okay.. my opinion
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Sheeeeesh! 
Armaggedon is a small fraud within a really big one
