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all this talk about closing GITMO is, imo, irrelevant! GITMO is just another prison. the question i want answered is what does pres obama intend doing with the prisoners.
if these men are guilty they must be charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. if we have no evidence then they must be released. where must they go? they must go back to the countries they where they are citizens.
i know my views aren't shared by many, but imo they won the war. they scared us into giving away some of our freedoms.
all this talk about closing GITMO is, imo, irrelevant! GITMO is just another prison. the question i want answered is what does pres obama intend doing with the prisoners.
if these men are guilty they must be charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. if we have no evidence then they must be released. where must they go? they must go back to the countries they where they are citizens.
i know my views aren't shared by many, but imo they won the war. they scared us into giving away some of our freedoms.
SHAME ON US!!!!
John Murtha has offered to take them to his district in Pennsylvania. I wonder how Pennsylvanians feel about that?
all this talk about closing GITMO is, imo, irrelevant! GITMO is just another prison. the question i want answered is what does pres obama intend doing with the prisoners.
if these men are guilty they must be charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. if we have no evidence then they must be released. where must they go? they must go back to the countries they where they are citizens.
i know my views aren't shared by many, but imo they won the war. they scared us into giving away some of our freedoms.
SHAME ON US!!!!
I saw a few signs at some rallies and maybe one or two in the inaguaration. "Close Gitmo". Would these people be willing to have these terrorists freed to go where they please? How about renting that 3 bedroom two bath next door to you. They are terrorists for Pete's sake!
I saw a few signs at some rallies and maybe one or two in the inaguaration. "Close Gitmo". Would these people be willing to have these terrorists freed to go where they please? How about renting that 3 bedroom two bath next door to you. They are terrorists for Pete's sake!
habeas corpus has been around since the 13th century. it is one of the pillars of our free society. the assumption that you are innocent until proven guilty is not something that should be taken lightly. if you want to live in something similar to nazi germany then keep encouraging lawmakers and politicians to ignore the constitution and pile on new orwellian legislation.
I saw a few signs at some rallies and maybe one or two in the inaguaration. "Close Gitmo". Would these people be willing to have these terrorists freed to go where they please? How about renting that 3 bedroom two bath next door to you. They are terrorists for Pete's sake!
IF they are terrorists then by all mean throw away the key and let the bastards rot in hell for all I care.
But first we must establish evidence, proof that all these people are indeed terrorists. We have not done so despite trying for over 7 years, with billions of dollars wasted on it.
Justice should be the same for all. Everyone is entitled to a real trial and we cannot pick and chose which bit of the legal system we abide by.
Innocent until proven guilty. Without Habeas Corpus our legal system is nothing but an empty shell.
I am quite sure some of these men are the murdering bastards who have planned and sometimes executed terrible crimes. Some however are most likely innocent and only guilty of being somewhere in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The point is that we must operate within the law or just become no better than those we seek to prosecute.
The Law has been bruised and battered in Guantanamo Bay and brought shame to the US and its legal system.
How would you like it if you had no access to proper legal representation , locked away without any charges and barred from having your day in court to establish your innocence.
This has been a travesty of Justice and of the Law. Looking guilty and being guilty are NOT the same thing. There have been plenty of miscarriages of Justice ever since legal systems have come to be from Ancient Mesopotamia to our current systems.
The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defence.
I want to see the perpetrators of terrorism punished as much as the next person but we achieve nothing by denying the very legal foundations of a democratic system.
We become just like the countries we hate so much and deride for their fundamentalist ways. We debase ourselves by not abiding by the very fundamentals of a legal system.
Also it is dangerous as it gives more ammunition to those who seek to destroy our way of life and radicalises entire groups of people who until then were perfectly normal human beings.
We do ourselves a great disfavour by behaving like a rogue Nation. Nothing good can come out of it and ultimately WE pay for it.
It is dangerous, immoral and illegal.
And yes I would be quite happy to have an exonerated ex Guantanamo prisoner living next to me. If he has been proven innocent then what else can I do ?
Freedom does come at a price. Evidence must be produced and guilt established beyond all reasonable doubt.
Habeas Corpus is the corner stone of our entire legal system , without it the whole house crumbles and comes crashing round our ears.
We forget this at our own peril.
We must not let feelings of revenge and hysteria take over from reason and logic.
IF they are terrorists then by all mean throw away the key and let the bastards rot in hell for all I care.
But first we must establish evidence, proof that all these people are indeed terrorists. We have not done so despite trying for over 7 years, with billions of dollars wasted on it.
Justice should be the same for all. Everyone is entitled to a real trial and we cannot pick and chose which bit of the legal system we abide by.
Innocent until proven guilty. Without Habeas Corpus our legal system is nothing but an empty shell.
I am quite sure some of these men are the murdering bastards who have planned and sometimes executed terrible crimes. Some however are most likely innocent and only guilty of being somewhere in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The point is that we must operate within the law or just become no better than those we seek to prosecute.
The Law has been bruised and battered in Guantanamo Bay and brought shame to the US and its legal system.
How would you like it if you had no access to proper legal representation , locked away without any charges and barred from having your day in court to establish your innocence.
This has been a travesty of Justice and of the Law. Looking guilty and being guilty are NOT the same thing. There have been plenty of miscarriages of Justice ever since legal systems have come to be from Ancient Mesopotamia to our current systems.
The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defence.
I want to see the perpetrators of terrorism punished as much as the next person but we achieve nothing by denying the very legal foundations of a democratic system.
We become just like the countries we hate so much and deride for their fundamentalist ways. We debase ourselves by not abiding by the very fundamentals of a legal system.
Also it is dangerous as it gives more ammunition to those who seek to destroy our way of life and radicalises entire groups of people who until then were perfectly normal human beings.
We do ourselves a great disfavour by behaving like a rogue Nation. Nothing good can come out of it and ultimately WE pay for it.
It is dangerous, immoral and illegal.
And yes I would be quite happy to have an exonerated ex Guantanamo prisoner living next to me. If he has been proven innocent then what else can I do ?
Freedom does come at a price. Evidence must be produced and guilt established beyond all reasonable doubt.
Habeas Corpus is the corner stone of our entire legal system , without it the whole house crumbles and comes crashing round our ears.
We forget this at our own peril.
We must not let feelings of revenge and hysteria take over from reason and logic.
i think this kinda logic falls predominantly on deaf ears. i know, i've argued the same points for ages and yet people don't see how their own freedoms, which the take for granted, are in jeopardy!
these guys must be charged, tried, and convicted or set free. if they are found not guilty they should receive restitution for wrongful imprisonment. if part of their restitution is residence here then so be it.
all this talk about closing GITMO is, imo, irrelevant! GITMO is just another prison. the question i want answered is what does pres obama intend doing with the prisoners.
if these men are guilty they must be charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. if we have no evidence then they must be released. where must they go? they must go back to the countries they where they are citizens.
i know my views aren't shared by many, but imo they won the war. they scared us into giving away some of our freedoms.
SHAME ON US!!!!
That's it. Our legal system has never before been confronted with large numbers of people arrested and detained without charges and in many cases without probably cause. The Bush Administration has maintained all along that they are not prisoners of war and are not protected as such. The Supreme court has ruled that in that case they must be allowed access to the Constitutional rights guaranteed to detainees who are not POW's. So the legal system seems to be working, but slowly as always.
Our legal system has never before been confronted with large numbers of people arrested and detained without charges and in many cases without probably cause.
Several hundred thousand Japanese American citizens would dispute that.
Quote:
The Bush Administration has maintained all along that they are not prisoners of war and are not protected as such.
They did this by coming up with the catch phrase "enemy combatants" and that they were "swept up on the battlefield", which was COMPLETE BS in most cases. Many of them were "grudge prisoners". If they are "enemy", and "combatants" and "swept up on the battlefield" then by definition they are POW.
Quote:
The Supreme court has ruled that in that case they must be allowed access to the Constitutional rights guaranteed to detainees who are not POW's. So the legal system seems to be working, but slowly as always.
It almost always does. The found against Lincoln for suspending Habeus Corpus. When my wife first read about the Navy JAG officer who brought the "Hamdan" suit she said, "OMG, way to kiss your career good-bye". I told her to study the subject somewhat, read the oath that military officers take, to the Constitution, and then tell me what she would have done. I alreayd knew the answer, my wife has such a high moral code I don't know why she ever went on a second date with me!
Our federal prisons are FULL of people who had access to attorneys, Habeus, and fair trials. Guess what? The guilty ones, and sometimes the innocent ones get convicted!
habeas corpus has been around since the 13th century. it is one of the pillars of our free society. the assumption that you are innocent until proven guilty is not something that should be taken lightly. if you want to live in something similar to nazi germany then keep encouraging lawmakers and politicians to ignore the constitution and pile on new orwellian legislation.
it's really simple, if they're guilty, charge em!
How does US law apply to them?
As almost every last one of the inmates at Gitmo were captured elsewhere what crimes would they be charged with and under what nations legal system?
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