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Old 01-27-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,162,102 times
Reputation: 10428

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
I was in the AF too, for twenty years. An enlisted cheating husband, or enlisted wife, can in fact get in trouble under the UCMJ. Did you hang around the NCO or Officer's Clubs? The reason why I asked is because that sort of behavior is seen at bars where people are drinking, regardless or being in the civilian sector or the military.
I don't remember any cheating husbands getting in trouble, even though it wasn't permitted under the UCMJ. I know one Tsgt. was demoted for empregnating an Airman who he supervised.

The behavior I witnessed at the NCO clubs was no different than your average bar, but I couldn't believe how many out-of-wedlock pregnancies occurred. I didn't know any girls who got pregnant while I was in college. Not that it doesn't happen in college, but it was just common in the AF.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,271 posts, read 37,040,759 times
Reputation: 16386
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I don't remember any cheating husbands getting in trouble, even though it wasn't permitted under the UCMJ. I know one Tsgt. was demoted for empregnating an Airman who he supervised.

The behavior I witnessed at the NCO clubs was no different than your average bar, but I couldn't believe how many out-of-wedlock pregnancies occurred. I didn't know any girls who got pregnant while I was in college. Not that it doesn't happen in college, but it was just common in the AF.
It's the same all over the place (military and civilian sector). Just look at the female sailors on ships around the world. They go out on a tour, get lonely, and comeback pregnant. Even some married ones return home pregnant, and not by their husbands.

In relation to getting in trouble over cheating, it's true. However, charges must be pressed against the enlisted member by another person before the UCMJ takes effect.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,271 posts, read 37,040,759 times
Reputation: 16386
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
People "like you" said the same thing about integration. There are more mixed marriages in the military than in the general populaion.

The largest group of STD and HIV cases are women.

Want to ban us?

It's all people, Ray, people.
We're not that different.
You just seem to have a lot of unfounded fears.

I don't get bailout money either.
Nice try at deflection.
You're a bigot, simple as that.
Are you better than gays?
What does anyone's sexual preference have to do with anything?
Why the fear?
You are assuming that I am against integration, but I am not. I also don't have anything against interracial marriages. In fact there are a few of those in my own family.

In relation to STD's: did you read the news report about venereal decease in the homosexual population? You can look at the report yourself at the CDC.

Why would I want to ban you? All I have said is that open homosexuality is not allowed in the military, and in The Boy Scouts Of America. Do you want to ban me?

I will just ignore the offensive things you have called me, and assume that you are a young person. You sound quite childish
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:24 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,624,812 times
Reputation: 7943
Another thing that makes the ban on being openly gay ridiculous is that there are tons of guys who are "bi-curious" - meaning, they're mostly straight, but they occasionally have an interest in other guys.

Sexuality can be very fluid. Human beings are sexual animals, and we're not all in one box or the other.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Southern Maryland
172 posts, read 278,671 times
Reputation: 67
I'm still a few years away from retiring and I use to have very strong feelings against gay's in the military. I didn't like the thought of knowing that there could be a few sleeping nearby in close quarter's or showering in a "gang" shower next to me. When the Don't ask Don't Tell Policy was signed into effect I was contemplating getting out rather than making the military a career.

Well that was years ago and I would like to be able to say that I've matured and grown as a person beyond seeing a person's sexual orientation and instead seeing their potential as a "warfighter". I have served with a few known gay men and woman, I could have easily found way's to get them discharged but chose no to based on their love for our country and their dedication to service.

My views have changed over the years. I think that if a person is patriotic enough to want to serve this great country of ours then we should let that person do so. I often wonder how many patriots sit at home wishing to be a part of the greatest military in the world only to think that they can't because of outdated rules based on archaic policies. It all boils down to what a person does behind close doors is none of my busniess, or anyone elses and I don't want to know, nor do I care. Felony's aside of course..... I think it's time to change our policy and I think the miltary would benefit in many ways from its departure.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:10 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,624,812 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Mo's View Post
I have served with a few known gay men and woman, I could have easily found way's to get them discharged but chose no to based on their love for our country and their dedication to service.
Thank you for being a good person.

Someone earlier said that there's not a "witch hunt" against gays. Bullsh*t. All anyone has to do to trigger an investigation is report that they "believe" a soldier might be a homosexual.

The potential for acts of revenge and blackmail under DADT is so obvious - I can't believe the policy has lasted even this long.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Southern Maryland
172 posts, read 278,671 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Thank you for being a good person.

Someone earlier said that there's not a "witch hunt" against gays. Bullsh*t. All anyone has to do to trigger an investigation is report that they "believe" a soldier might be a homosexual.

The potential for acts of revenge and blackmail under DADT is so obvious - I can't believe the policy has lasted even this long.
Did you serve on active duty?

I won't speak for every service or for every command in the Navy but I will speak for the commands I've been in.

I've never witnessed any "manhunts" looking to out gay's from their service, and I've never seen or heard of anyone accusing someone of being gay to seek revenge or for blackmail. Everywhere I've served each command has taken don't ask don't tell seriosly. The policy has been enforced and I know a few folks who have been disciplined for asking the dreaded question. I only know one person who was discharged for being gay and it was because he voluntarily told the wrong person.

I won't dispute your claims because I'm sure the things you've mentioned are known to and probably do happen. Just commenting based on what my experiences have been. If they happened to you then I'm sorry hear to that.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:27 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,624,812 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Mo's View Post
I've never witnessed any "manhunts" looking to out gay's from their service, and I've never seen or heard of anyone accusing someone of being gay to seek revenge or for blackmail.
I just look at the statistics and read the news. Surprisingly, women are much more likely to be discharged under DADT than men.

Don't ask, don't tell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist - Military- msnbc.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/wa...agon.html?_r=1

Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,329 posts, read 61,154,439 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I just look at the statistics and read the news. Surprisingly, women are much more likely to be discharged under DADT than men.
I could see that.

Most of my military career it was all exclusive men, the vessels that I was stationed on were all male, the schools that I attended had no females, and the bases had very few females.

1987-1990; I did spend 3 years on a co-ed surface ship. On it I did observe, some fights. Female's getting jealous of other females getting into fights, or females who would jump to 'defend' another female. It was almost all sexually motivated.

I was once at the airport seeing off my Dw, she was going to land in warm weather so as she was getting onto the plane she handed me her parka.

Stepping off the plane was a female seaman coming from bootcamp, wearing a t-shirt and jeans. it was far below zero, so I offered her my Dw's parka and a lift back to the ship.

When we got to the ship, I offered to the seaman that she could keep the parka until her next paycheck, then buy herself cold weather gear and to return the parka. I walked her to the pier, and a female MA1 was at the head of the pier. That MA1 jumped on me, accused me of being a predator. She was very obvious that she was going to be the only sexual attraction of that seaman.

Now it had not occurred to me to try anything, it was cold and they had sent this seaman here with no cold weather gear. I was trying to do a good deed.

There were a few 'dikes' who guarded their precious girls very closely.

On board that ship there were fights over it. But the busts were all about the fighting. Not the sexual orientation of the dikes.



the next time that I served at a co-ed station was in 1997-2001. While there it seemed that most of the females were heterosexual. I can not recall seeing any behavior to suggest that there were many homosexual female. they may have been there, but they kept it all hush hush.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Indiana
2,046 posts, read 1,571,607 times
Reputation: 396
Default 7thgrader ignorance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Ridiculous? First of all, no one is proposing that separate sleeping quarters be built, so I don't know why you're even making that an issue.

Secondly, if separate sleeping quarters are what it takes to ensure that everyone is comfortable, then separate quarters it is! What - it's okay to build separate quarters for one group of people (straight women) but not for others? (gay men and gay women) Not like this is even going to happen, but I wanted to make the point.

Third: Majority rules? Wrong. You're ignorant, like so many others who couldn't pass a 7th grade civics class if their lives depended on it. Newsflash: The majority doesn't always get their way. The fact that this is news to you is a sad commentary on your knowledge of how American government works.

Finally: .01 percent of the people? Where did you get that figure? More ignorance, I'm afraid.

It's so sad for you that you're going to have to deal with the fact that everyone (eventually) gets treated equally in America. If you don't like that, you're free to leave.
If I dont like it I can leave??How about if gays dont like the rules of the military.Dont join. Join the the arts,opera somthing they can feel confortable in. Is this the way everyone eventually gets treated equally,by asking them to leave if they disagree with you.how inclusive is that? If,If you went to college your liberal profesor should have thought you to be all inclusive.I think gay is a mental illness,same as a child pornographer, yet I have nothing bad to say about them,other then there sick There not ignorant or stupid.they are metally ill,there for the military should no accept them.
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