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I thought this might make an interesting discussing so..I started this thread to discuss it with whoever wishes to engage in such a discussion.
If this is not the right forum to discuss this in...can someone let me know such that I could then start it in the right forum or at least have it moved there (if any mod cares to do that)?
If you are not interested in this issue, wish that all door to door solicitors would just disappear or be arrested, or want to beat up on me for even thinking of going to door to door...please do me a favor and go hang out on some other thread. I am interested in discussing the issue...not why my faith in God is silly (if you think it's silly), why I want to go door to door, who I think I am wanting to discuss this, or any other such topic irrelevant to a discussion of the issue itself.
I have been looking at various cases where the Supreme Court struck down local ordinances that restricted door-to-door canvassing or solicitation with an interest in seeing if San Diego's ordinances meet Constitutional muster.
It seems, and I stress seems, that San Diego's demands on their application for door-to-door solicitation violate several Constitutional principles or things that are considered essential to maintaining those principals.
Among them the right to anonymity on the part of the solicitor, the right to freedom of speech, and the right to due process of law.
San Diego's door-to-door solicitation permit application completely strips a door to door solicitor of their right to anonymity in that all information given, and their demand for information is excessive, must be made available to anyone that requests it through a California open records act request. The information they demand includes things like one's Social Security number, where one has lived and worked for the last five years, all phone numbers, addresses, birth date, place of birth, and all manner of other information.
San Diego limits the kinds of speech that can be exercised before a person's door and unfairly prejudices their ordinance against those who they do not want going door to door. As opposed to those who they more freely allow to go door to door (such as Girl Scouts selling cookies).
San Diego demands excessive disclosure of non-relevant information from those who would go door to door in an attempt to prevent fraud or criminal activity on the part of the solicitors without proving that such demands should reasonably be applied more to certain types of solicitors (such as commercial solicitors vs religous solicitors) than others. Violating due process of law.
Those are just my thoughts off the bat. I am still investigating this issue and I may be incorrect in some of my take on what is Constitutional or what is not but...that is why I started this thread .
I would be very interested in hearing any input on this from anyone who might have an interest in discussing this in a respectful manner. I say that in order to encourage fruitful discussion in the hope, perhaps naive hope, that those who just want to engage in mean spirited and otherwise derogatory comments will go exercise their speech on another thread .
what you talking about ---my elderly friend sandy that was kidnapped tortured and assaulted last month by solicitors? oakly doaky. but you are right just because of a few incidents and a wee bit of an economic downturn is no reason to go around discriminating against people. thank you for your thoughtful post about reminding us of the rights of strangers that come to our door.
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 01-29-2009 at 12:57 AM..
what you talking about ---my elderly friend sandy that was kidnapped tortured and assaulted last month by solicitors?
That's terrible!
Quote:
...but you are right just because of a few incidents and a wee bit of an economic downturn is no reason to go around discriminating against people. thank you for your thoughtful post about reminding us of the rights of strangers that come to our door.
Ahh...hmm...well, let's see...don't mention it...I suppose, with respect to your thanking me for my thoughtful post I mean .
I feel honored that someone with over 14,000 posts to their name stopped by and said something .
In my further reading tonight I think the Supreme Court makes a distinction between commercial and non-commercial speech. Giving the former not much protection at all while affording the latter full protection.
It appears that one can go door to door to tell people about God for example, without first getting a permit from the city of San Diego to do so. Such speech is fully protected from government restriction or licencing.
Commercial speech does not appear to fall under the same protection however.
Some legal scholars contend that there is little basis, Constitutionally speaking, for distinguishing between commericial and non-commercial speech. And they make a lot of sense.
Overall...it appears that the US Supreme Court has not made clear or been consistent in definining what commercial speech is and how it differs from non-commercial speech (assuming that such a distinction can be made at all). This ambiguity has led to tons of needless lawsuits and uncertainty regarding what a city can and cannot do to regulate commercial speech.
So what's your beef? You're a Constitutional scholar or you don't like answering the door?
Frankly, that's one of the lamest standing-on-my-civil-rights tirades I've ever seen.
You want civil rights when you've been wrongly imprisoned. You need civil rights when the FBI has wiretapped your phone without a warrant. You need civil rights when the cops beat you to a pulp at the gas station.
But if you're going to spend your time with each tiny life incident pondering whether or not your *civil rights* have been impeded, you need to get a grip on what's important and what needs to be blown off as a minor irritant.
Civil rights are important stuff. People hanging flyers on your doorknob are insignificant. Carlos, try to mellow out just a little. Choose your battles and save the ammunition for things that are crucial in principle and substance. I think you can move on with your life after this knocking-on-the-door incident. I think the Supreme Court has graver matters to consider.
Whenever solicitors come to my door, they are met by my great dog Gytrash; and upon seeing him, they invariably decide to take their trade elsewhere. Anyone that doesn’t pass muster by him, will have no business with me - as many a Jehovah Witness can attest.
Civil rights are important stuff. People hanging flyers on your doorknob are insignificant. Carlos, tryto mellow out just a little. Choose your battles and save the ammunition for things that are crucial in principle and substance. I think you can move on with your life after this knocking-on-the-door incident. I think the Supreme Court has graver matters to consider.
And I think I have better things to do than interacting with someone who doesn't seem to have an sincere interest in discussing the issue...other than to use it as a launching pad to attack me.
If you think the issue I brought up is silly or not worth discussing at all, by all means you have the right to state so, and I would not take your right away to do so at all, but might I suggest that it might lead to more fruitful discussion if you went and found a thread somewhere here...that you might sincerely be interested in discussing. Rather than just coming here to bash me or my interest in discussing this?
Door to door salesepeople are a cancer on society. It should be outlawed altogether. I wish our community would enact a law where at the very least these shysters and crooks would have to obtain a permit.
Violation of your personal rights? Oh please - you violate my right to the peaceful enjoyment of my home each time you knock on my door. Despite the "NO SOLICITORS" sign I have displayed prominently on my front door. Do you really think it is unreasonable to expect you to reveal your name and other identifying data if you plan to canvas a neighborhood? Would you not need to reveal all that info to any potential employer before they hired you? Are we citizens not entitled to know who it is we are dealing with, and how to track you down if you ripped us off?
No sympathy here - and no violation of any civil rights as far as I'm concerned. Don't come to solicit, and you don't need to fill out the form. See how easy that is to not have your rights violated?
While I appreciate the input...I am not looking for sympathy nor do I have an interest (for purposes of this thread) in discussing cute or not so cute antics to keep people interested in going door to door, at bay.
I am interested in discussing the issue of whether we, as Americans, have a free speech or other Constitutional right to go door to door.
If anyone wants to discuss that...great. If not...I'll consider this thread dead and will pursue a discussion of this issue elsewhere.
The problem with door to door, is it USED to involve little boys and girls selling cookies, or for noble causes. Now, just like with telemarketers, it got ruined by scam artists, thieves, con-men and so on. So, people and their elected officials had to take action. Most people who come to your door today are up to no good and that is just a fact. Over here in NC, we have had a real problem with thieves guised as door to door people.
I think it's day has passed, as 90% of home owners get angry when people come to their home. tHE very least of which is is extremely annoying! It's my property, not your public constitutional right to come onto it, UNLESS I INVITE YOU!
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