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Sure looked to me like you were pointing the finger at obama. if you do a post like this again, and multiple parties are involved in what could be wrong doing, please be sure you mention all stupid parties, so people don't single you out as disliking one more than another. thanks for clarifying your position, I have now stepped down off of my soapbox, the floor is yours.
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Originally Posted by evilnewbie
You are taking my quote out of context... I simply am saying that it was passed with a Democratic majority and you are correct McCain and other Republicans did approve of it as well... the failed bailout was bipartisan... I was simply correcting a previous poster who seem to think it was only from a Republican majority when in fact, it was not. And yes, I didn't support McCain or Obama... I felt both were horrible candidates at that time... McCain isn't president, Obama is and that's why I pointed him out that he also supported the bailouts and is a democrat... McCain is a total loser and I am glad he isn't president... I didn't lay blame on democrats alone, it was BOTH parties and here we are still electing both of these retarded parties back into power... god save us all... too bad I am an atheist as well...
I'm not certain you weren't just trolling here (no facts, mostly ranting), but I'll answer you regardless.
The congressional budget office says the plan will create somewhere around 4 million jobs over the next couple of years.
Are they all perfect projects? Probably not. But these were the things that could create jobs quickly. And urgency is a big factor here.
I'm sure they could hammer out the perfect bill 6 months from now, which likely would not have any effect on 2009.
The Porkulus plan will not "create" 4 million jobs. I've read the plan and there is nothing there that creates long term "real jobs". Spending $335 million on talking about herpes or $400 million to study global warming yet again doesn't create "stimulus" in the economy.
Ultimately what they need to do is get out of the way of business and let them create jobs through real growth.
The Porkulus plan will not "create" 4 million jobs. I've read the plan and there is nothing there that creates long term "real jobs". Spending $335 million on talking about herpes or $400 million to study global warming yet again doesn't create "stimulus" in the economy.
Ultimately what they need to do is get out of the way of business and let them create jobs through real growth.
Can you please substantiate your argument with any kind of facts? What section of the bill of the bill is the herpes talk? Do you guys have anything other than talking points?
Do you have any nonpartisan economic links to back up you claim? Anything please, I want to believe your side is better informed than you have shown!
it wont work bek this is not FDR workforce this is a stinky lazy mega attitude workforce.
mexican people are the only ones that will benefit from a stimulus package.
they got work ethic.
I'm not certain you weren't just trolling here (no facts, mostly ranting), but I'll answer you regardless.
The congressional budget office says the plan will create somewhere around 4 million jobs over the next couple of years.
Are they all perfect projects? Probably not. But these were the things that could create jobs quickly. And urgency is a big factor here.
I'm sure they could hammer out the perfect bill 6 months from now, which likely would not have any effect on 2009.
The stimulus package will not do very much within the next year. If you read the package(it is long) much of it won't be for about 18 months. The version I read was also full of items that don't do anything for stimulating the economy(it may have been revised, I don't know yet). Things like contrceptives, money going to the National Endowment of the Arts, skateboard park, golf coarse clubhouse and maintenance and the list goes on and on.
The other issue is where is all this money going to come from. All of us. If we get the 4 million jobs, it will come at a cost of $290,000 per job with interest. A better way to look at it is without taking tax brackets into consideration. The stimulus package will cost each household $6700. If you make a very good living you will pay more and if you are poor you will pay less. Granted we will have an improved infrastucture. There are some good things with the package, but there are some poor ideas as well. Then this leads to another problem, all the inflation and massive debt that this will create. There are economists talking about the government having to create another recession by jacking up the intrest rates to around 18% just to cut the inflation caused by this plan. They may add another 2 trillion dollars in TARP additions to bail the banks out.
I will make a historical statement. FDRs "New Deal" that some still think took the country out of the great depression did not work. It was the start of World War 2 that took the country out of the depression. We still had double digit unemployment rates and in fact there were some poorly placed laws, including some 700 cartel codes that made it more expensive for employers to hire people and this discouraged hiring people. This was only some of what went on with the New Deal. Think of it this way. If it really did work, then why are we not using those practices today?
The Porkulus plan will not "create" 4 million jobs. I've read the plan and there is nothing there that creates long term "real jobs".
As Obama has said, ultimately it will be up to business. The purpose is to jump-start the economy, preventing things from getting worse at the least and improving things at best.
And creating 4 million jobs (CBO's estimate, not mine), even short-term jobs, over the next few years will certainly increase spending/demand for products/services, which in turn should help create more of these longterm jobs everyone is after.
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Spending $335 million on talking about herpes or $400 million to study global warming yet again doesn't create "stimulus" in the economy.
How many scientists does that $400 million employ?
$335 million for Herpes discussions ... well, how many 'speakers' will be employed?
Quote:
Ultimately what they need to do is get out of the way of business and let them create jobs through real growth.
Under ordinary circumstances, I might agree with you.
But doesn't this feel like extraordinary circumstances?
I don't want things to get worse, and this stimulus will help.
Is it enough?
Shrug, i've no idea.
As Obama has said, ultimately it will be up to business. The purpose is to jump-start the economy, preventing things from getting worse at the least and improving things at best.
And creating 4 million jobs (CBO's estimate, not mine), even short-term jobs, over the next few years will certainly increase spending/demand for products/services, which in turn should help create more of these longterm jobs everyone is after.
How many scientists does that $400 million employ?
$335 million for Herpes discussions ... well, how many 'speakers' will be employed?
Under ordinary circumstances, I might agree with you.
But doesn't this feel like extraordinary circumstances?
I don't want things to get worse, and this stimulus will help.
Is it enough?
Shrug, i've no idea.
I'm not looking to create any riffs, but I work in medical research. There may be some jobs created, but very few. This type of money would most likely go to a labs or researchers in need of research money. We are always looking to get more money for ongoing research.
The stimulus package will not do very much within the next year. If you read the package(it is long) much of it won't be for about 18 months. The version I read was also full of items that don't do anything for stimulating the economy(it may have been revised, I don't know yet). Things like contrceptives, money going to the National Endowment of the Arts, skateboard park, golf coarse clubhouse and maintenance and the list goes on and on.
I've read summaries of it - i haven't attempted to read the full thing - but yeah, I realize most of it is after this year.
Aren't these the 'shovel-ready' projects?
Is it easy to get something to this 'shovel-ready' point?
Can things be done short term, or will it be 3 months later before anything is decided, then another 6 before anything begins to take effect?
Quote:
The other issue is where is all this money going to come from. All of us.
The bush tax cuts cost all of us $1.6 trillion dollars through 2008 - for comparison.
Quote:
If we get the 4 million jobs, it will come at a cost of $290,000 per job with interest.
4 million was my estimate based on the CBO numbers.
It was something like:
1 million this year
3 million next year
1+ million the following year
Not those exact numbers - it may have been closer to 5 million jobs total.
Quote:
A better way to look at it is without taking tax brackets into consideration. The stimulus package will cost each household $6700. If you make a very good living you will pay more and if you are poor you will pay less. Granted we will have an improved infrastucture. There are some good things with the package, but there are some poor ideas as well. Then this leads to another problem, all the inflation and massive debt that this will create. There are economists talking about the government having to create another recession by jacking up the intrest rates to around 18% just to cut the inflation caused by this plan. They may add another 2 trillion dollars in TARP additions to bail the banks out.
I will make a historical statement. FDRs "New Deal" that some still think took the country out of the great depression did not work. It was the start of World War 2 that took the country out of the depression. We still had double digit unemployment rates and in fact there were some poorly placed laws, including some 700 cartel codes that made it more expensive for employers to hire people and this discouraged hiring people. This was only some of what went on with the New Deal. Think of it this way. If it really did work, then why are we not using those practices today?
I'm.. not gonna argue any of that.
Not that I agree, but the last time I studied FDR was 7th grade and he seemed like an ok guy.
I may agree with you about the war. Without all that government spending, who knows where we'd be.
Without all that government spending, who knows where we'd be.
Probably be in a better place.... and we certainly wouldn't be here right now... lets start!
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