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Old 01-31-2009, 06:25 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,117,192 times
Reputation: 5941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
There is a "viable alternative"; but, the Damnocrats aren't listening.
What is it?



Is it that really good idea of giving the uber wealthy tax breaks which created ALL THOSE JOBS that everyone has and now the unemployment rate is.05 and the economy is booming???

Oh , wait...that was in a dream ... repub wet dream.....and that's ALL it was.

Any more great ideas from the repubs????
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:40 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,428,127 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
There is a "viable alternative"; but, the Damnocrats aren't listening.
The viable alternative to surpluses is deficits. The viable alternative to peace is war. The viable alternative to jobs is unemployment. The viable alternative to prosperity is destitution. The viable alternative to equality is discrimination and privilege. The viable alternative to international respect and admiration is international contempt.

Some of us have grown a little tired at this point of you right-wingers and your blasted viable alternatives...
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:07 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,836,248 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmastersteve View Post
Thank LaMexican, The respect is mutual! I still hold out hope that the democrats and Obama can turn around the economy. It will be hard with the mess that the Gop left him, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now.
A part of me feels that many economists at the moment are exaggerating how bad things will get, all for the glory of getting their names in print or on-air. My gut feels that we may be close to hitting the bottom, if we haven't hit it already. I think this spring a lot will depend on how people are managing their debt loads. The markets in nominal terms could go up.
I agree, and the media is eating it up! It's a breathe of fresh air to get an honest answer/debate based on some actual research on your part! Good to know that there are still some guys on that side of the aisle that still care about the well being of the country and not just their ideoligy! My last answer wasn't as thorough as it could have been! I will make it more thorough if need be!
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,253,575 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Economists say stimulus won’t work | Mound City Money | STLtoday (http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/mound-city-money/us-economy/2009/01/economists-say-stimulus-wont-work/ - broken link)



Of course, the dems and obama know that full well but are going full steam ahead to try and "change" from a capitalist republic to a socialist one. This is their opportunity (when the economy is in the tank) to implement their liberal, socialist policies. Take note of the bold - we have been here before - what the dems and obama are trying to do has been shown to be a failure.
Don't you know that Nobel Prize winning Krugman is the authority on economics, and what he says is golden, just like all Nobel Prize winning economists before him?

Did I mention that Krugman won the Nobel Prize in economics? He did!

Sarcasm off.
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: T or C New Mexico
2,600 posts, read 2,318,605 times
Reputation: 607
I'll listen to you guy, just tell us how you'd do things. surely you have some ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
There is a "viable alternative"; but, the Damnocrats aren't listening.
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,253,575 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Oh, and by the way, the Mises Institute is a storefront propaganda operation supported by hard-right corporate mega-money. Think Scaife, Coors, Bradley, Walton, et al. There are fewer than 100 people included in their so-called Austrian School. By comparison, there are more than 20,000 members of the American Economic Association, the professional group for real, actual economists.
The Mises Institute is only a propaganda operation to the most tin foil hatty sociopaths on this planet. Corporate big shots utilize the Keynesian retard policies to leverage themselves against new entries to market, by increasing regulation making it unaffordable for small business wishing to enter the market to comply.

What is the yardstick for a "real, actual" economist? A bureaucrat job in Washington? A Novel prize for an unrelated subject by a loser with a political axe to grind? There are more people insane in American than there are scholars. Should we listen to the masses in this particular case?
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:31 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,428,127 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
The Mises Institute is only a propaganda operation to the most tin foil hatty sociopaths on this planet.
Yes, you've summed up the nature of their clientelle fairly accurately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Corporate big shots utilize the Keynesian retard policies to leverage themselves against new entries to market, by increasing regulation making it unaffordable for small business wishing to enter the market to comply.
Sounds like a simple case of not being adept enough to compete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
What is the yardstick for a "real, actual" economist?
Probably the inclination to do some actual work. You know, to gather and examine some data, to create tests and hypotheses, to submit that work honestly and impartially to peers for review and comment, to provide the same functions with respect to the work of others.

These Austrians insist that they can sit around and deduce all of economics from theories of human nature. If they just think about these things long enough, it will all become clear to them. Even if the data suggest that their ideas are just plain foolishness. But rest assured, for as long as Austrian conclusions independently arrived at happen to coincide with the interests of corporate gougers and privateers, there will be plenty of money flowing from these hard-right sources into Mises coffers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
There are more people insane in American than there are scholars. Should we listen to the masses in this particular case?
Well, the choice would seem to be between a bunch who know a great deal about a subject and have considerable experience with it on the one hand, and a bunch of assorted dummies on the other. The choice isn't so difficult...unless one were himself a part of that alternative group, of course...
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:55 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,405,802 times
Reputation: 4798
House Bill:
Quote:
All reports shall be publicly
2 available and shall be posted on the Internet website
3 Recovery.gov, except that portions of reports may be
4 redacted if the portions would disclose information
5 that is protected from public disclosure under sec-
6 tion 552 of title 5, United States Code (popularly
7 known as the Freedom of Information Act).
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...f:h1eh.txt.pdf

Quote:
7 SEC. 1226. RECOVERY.GOV.
8 (a) REQUIREMENT TO ESTABLISH WEBSITE.—The
9 Board shall establish and maintain a website on the Inter
10 net to be named Recovery.gov, to foster greater account
11 ability and transparency in the use of funds made avail
12 able in this Act.
13 (b) PURPOSE.—Recovery.gov shall be a portal or
14 gateway to key information related to this Act and provide
15 a window to other Government websites with related infor-
16 mation.
17 (c) MATTERS COVERED.—In establishing the website
18 Recovery.gov, the Board shall ensure the following:
19 (1) The website shall provide materials explain
20 ing what this Act means for citizens. The materials
21 shall be easy to understand and regularly updated.
22 (2) The website shall provide accountability in
23 formation, including a database of findings from au-
24 dits, inspectors general, and the Government Ac
25 countability Office.
1 (3) The website shall provide data on relevant
2 economic, financial, grant, and contract information
3 in user-friendly visual presentations to enhance pub-
4 lic awareness of the use funds made available in this
5 Act.
6 (4) The website shall provide detailed data on
7 contracts awarded by the Government for purposes
8 of carrying out this Act, including information about
9 the competitiveness of the contracting process, noti
10 fication of solicitations for contracts to be awarded,
11 and information about the process that was used for
12 the award of contracts.
13 (5) The website shall include printable reports
14 on funds made available in this Act obligated by
15 month to each State and congressional district.
16 (6) The website shall provide a means for the
17 public to give feedback on the performance of con
18 tracts awarded for purposes of carrying out this Act.
19 (7) The website shall be enhanced and updated
20 as necessary to carry out the purposes of this sub
21 title.
22 (8) The website shall provide, by location, links
23 to and information on how to access job opportuni-
24 ties created at or by entities receiving funding under
25 this Act, including, if possible, links to or informa-
tion about local employment agencies; state, local
2 and other public agencies receiving funding; and pri-
3 vate firms contracted to perform work funded by
4 this Act.

Last edited by BigJon3475; 01-31-2009 at 09:53 AM.. Reason: add more info
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,642 posts, read 15,574,975 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by bls5555 View Post
People it's really very simple to look up what the Republicans want to do. Im assuming you don't want to because it is a much better plan.

lol...The Republicans refuse to supply accurate information. Case in point...

Quote:
The first proposal—offered by Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI)—was based on the proposition that analysis done by two of President Obama’s own economic advisors, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, showed, that tax cuts created far more jobs on a dollar-per-dollar basis and that the substitute would create twice as many jobs as the recovery package it would replace, despite the fact that it was only half the size. In other words the economic multiplier effect for tax cuts was approximately four times greater than the multiplier for increased spending.


If one goes to that analysis, however, there is clear evidence that exactly the opposite is the case. In the Appendix on page 12 of the Romer and Bernstein report a table is provided detailing the assumptions about the simulative impact of tax cuts and spending increases. The table shows the impact that a tax cut of 1 percent of gross domestic product ($140 billion) would have relative to the impact of a spending increase of the same size for each of the 16 quarters following the adoption of either a tax cut or spending increase.


In the first quarter the spending increase has an immediate impact roughly equal to the amount expended. The tax cut has no impact at all. In the second quarter the spending increase has a multiplier impact of 1.24 while the tax cut has an impact of only 0 .49. So six months after the effective date of either policy, tax cuts have only about 40 percent of the impact of spending increases. After two full years the impact of the tax cuts is about two-thirds that of spending increases. Yet Camp stated during the debate:


An analysis by President Obama’s nominated senior economic adviser…shows that tax cuts provide more immediate growth and job creation in the economy than does spending. So tax cuts provide a bigger bang for the buck... When the methods and economic models developed by the president’s top economic adviser are applied to the Republican plan, it shows the Republican plan could create as many as 6.2 million jobs over the next 2 years.


What the Romer analysis actually does show is that if you factor in the reduced size of the substitute with the lower stimulative impact of tax cuts, the number of new additional jobs created would decline from 3.9 million under the committee bill to about 1.3 million under the substitute. The Camp substitute would actually create fewer jobs than the economy has lost in just the last three months.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,642 posts, read 15,574,975 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
There are more people insane in American than there are scholars. Should we listen to the masses in this particular case?
Depends....Are they capable of a consensus?
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