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'Scuse me? "Terrible"? Just b/c we question your assumption, we are not "terrible". Your assumptions about ER care are erroneous. ERs always charge, and always bill. You may have insurance, or not. You may have medicaid, or not. You may not always pay the bill. But the ER is not exactly a source of "free" care. Yes, doctors are required to provide a minimum level of care in an ER regardless of the patient's ability to pay, but everybody gets billed.
I work in a pediatrician's office. I can't tell you how many times I"ve heard: "we knew you weren't open on Sunday (for ex), so we took him to the ER". In point of fact, we, like virtually every physican practice in the country, has an on-call service for after hours care.
There has been some research that most people using the ER are insured. Unfortunately, I can't find a link right now.
^wow!
some terrible people. I posted an article that was not bias. Like most stats or facts reported in left or right wing journals against or with UHC. The fact is US healthcare is not comparable to most industrialized healthcare availability to the common people. Going to the ER and never paying because you don't have the money is not a good thing since it will send prices up to us who have mediocre healthcare insurance. Which is the majority of the people.
Every written article has bias.
Just like looking at a woman dying in an ER, and twisting it to mean that she did not have insurance. You look at things and 'see' what your bias allows you to see.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion
Because our 300 million people population would make universal healthcare more complicated. And if America did adopt a universal ssyetem then all illegal immigrants will have to be removed to keep from over burdening the system. We would probably have to put up a wall at the border.
Not that I support UHC but wouldn't we have to prove that we are citizens or legal residents in order to receive care under such UHC? I doubt that I could utilize Canada's UHC unless I became a tax-paying citizen so the same should be said for illegal immigrants here.
Not that I support UHC but wouldn't we have to prove that we are citizens or legal residents in order to receive care under such UHC? I doubt that I could utilize Canada's UHC unless I became a tax-paying citizen so the same should be said for illegal immigrants here.
I've had an interesting life experience going from being a U.S. trained ED physician, firmly believing in the private system of medicine practiced in the U.S. to making a move to Australia, which has healthcare for all legal residents and in addition an active private system that adds to the baseline system that exists for all.
There are upsides and downsides to all systems, but I have observed that as a society, AU has markedly better penetration of primary care services for all and as a result markedly fewer preventable emergencies. The cost of healthcare in terms of % of GDP is markedly less in AU, and yet the taxes ultimately are about the same.
There are both private and public hospitals; but everyone has basic healthcare. If you do not have private health cover, you may end up waiting 12-18 months to get that gallbladder removed or get that hip replacement -- but it'll still gets done in the public system. If you have private cover, you'll get it done in weeks.
Overall, I believe I'm seeing a kinder, more decent society here when it comes to medical practice.
I was always frustrated as an ED doc in the U.S. when I'd get some 85 year old patient with advanced dementia with sepsis - -the family wanted everything done -- we'd provide advanced care, place on a ventilator, antibiotics, fluids, pressors, central lines, ICU care -- yet the person doesn't even know their own children. We pay 10's of thousands of tax dollar to keep this person in dementia care in U.S. each year, then blow through 10's of thousands/week in hospitalization when they get sick without ever really thinking about it.
In AU, the family isn't given this option (private or public care) -- the doctor advises as to what would be reasonable and people are willing to deal with things in a reasonable way. We give comfort measures, but don't spend 6 figures on someone who is dying and had no preceding quality of life.
There needs to be a realism in the U.S. with healthcare; in that the fancy stuff should be available for those who have private insurance, but a baseline level of care needs to be in place for all; and yes, only to legal residents.
This is how other countries have much better health outcomes than the U.S. for 50% of the cost. This is the basis for how a Michael Moore can produce such a crap film as he did comparing the healthcare in Cuba to that of the U.S. However, once you merge the outcomes of everyone in the society; his film has some truth. This shouldn't be the case.
Because the American Medical Association, the Trial Lawyers Association, the HMOs, the pharmaceutical manufacturers and the insurance companies like it the way it is. They are rapeing us big time and like it a lot.
Interestingly it is not so simple. I believe the AMA does wish the best for both the doctors and the people of the U.S. -- whether they are poorly directed or not, I'm not sure. The legal system is a major issue; but ultimately, the American people are the losers here with a system that supplies massive resources to a limited number or people quite heroically, while neglecting the routine care to tens of millions, resulting in overall worse outcomes than that of countries spending a fraction of what the U.S. spends on healthcare.
It is easy to throw out accusations and names of organizations; however, the issues are more complex than this.
I will tell you why , because the drug companies could no longer charge a dollar for a pill that is made for .20 cents . Because of the fda and the greedy drs who want to be paid for going to medical school . Excuse me that was your choice to go to medical school and I dont feel that I should have to pay for someone elses choices . I agree that the united states should have universal health care and frankly I am tired of hearing the excuse it would not work here . Excuse me canada makes it work , The UK makes it work . I am sick of that argument . We need universal health care here now , not 20 years from now .
I'm French and therefore European and the very, very vast majority of Europeans are happy with their healthcare. We all grumble about taxes ( who doesn't) but at the end of the day we are more than happy to pay for the security we get.
Sadly I have had long term health problems and have had to use the system quite a bit and the French healthcare is second to none. Latest medical innovations are used, the hospitals are all equipped with ultra modern facilities , there is no shortage of doctors or nurses and patients chose not only their GPs but their specialists. GPs will even visit you at home if you need them to. You can also go to recuperation "rest homes" if you are well enough to leave the hospital but not quite well enough to go home to make it more efficient and free hospital beds. People are also sent on "cures" for various ailments such as Arthritis , Psoriasis etc... taking the waters and having thalassotherapy , whatever is required to make you better. That is whether you are a CEO of a multinational or a homeless person living in a shelter.
There are also Private clinics for those who still prefer it and those are also subsidised by the State and used if the "national" hospitals are too busy for whatever reason.
Hospitals are comfortable and ultra-modern .
No waiting lists.
The UK system is granted a long way from being perfect ( far too bureaucratic and "top heavy" in terms of administration and 20 years of Conservatism destroyed what was an excellent system - not enough investment into medical schools mean we do not have enough Doctors and Nurses, a lot of money has been spent on it for the last 10 years but it will take a while to rebuild what took 40 years to build and a few years to destroy ) but ask the majority of people and the vast majority prefer the UK system to the one in place in the US. Europeans actually tremble at the idea of being sick in the US.
Do you realise that travel insurance covers run from : Europe to Rest of the World ( including Haiti , Zimbabwe or Liberia) and Rest of the world including USA !
Everyone is terrified of even only twisting an ankle in the US because of the ridiculous costs. I don't know anyone who would come to the US even for a few days who would not chose the most expensive cover they can afford.
I also have knowledge of the German and Dutch systems and never had any complaints. Same with Austria , and Spain.
My Grand-Parents who in the last few years had a lot of serious to minor ailments never had to wait longer than a week to 2 weeks for a non urgent intervention and were seen immediately when it was serious. My Grand-Mother would pick up the yellow pages and chose her own surgeon. So there are no restrictions.
So to quote boilrmkr :
Educate yourself, do your research ! Because what you are saying is just wrong. Really, really wrong.
You don't live in the best country in the world. There is no such thing. Grow up , this is not a peeing competition.
Would it be possible for a nonresident to get health care in France or any European country with better health care than ours (Netherlands, Germany, etc)?
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