The Economic Value of Slave Labor (McCain, unemployed, soldier, Byrd)

[ndfmnlf]

If we were to put a dollar value on the contribution of African slave labor to the US economy, what would that value be? According to this analysis Slavery and the American Economy

"the results of the economic value of this free labor are, when inflated conservatively at 3% to 2006 dollars, a staggering value of 20.3 trillion dollars or to put this number in a more visual perspective; it amounts to $563,450 per African American currently living in the US."

20 trillion dollars is a large sum of money. This is the value of uncompensated labor that built this country from the ground up. Just for kicks, I searched for data on how much money has been spent on social programs to support blacks. The data is hard to find, but one conservative website has estimated that since 1965 when Great Society programs were enacted, the US federal, state, and local government welfare programs combined have spent about $350 billion per year (spending less during the early years and gradually ratcheting up as time went on). So if we take an average of $350 billion per year, multiplied by 44 years, that gives you about $15 trillion.

This certainly doesn't mean $15 trillion has been spent on blacks, since not all beneficiaries of welfare programs are blacks (in fact, 53% of welfare recipients are white), and since not all blacks are on welfare (the great majority most likely are not). So the amount of welfare programs received by blacks is much less than $15 trillion.

The point being, American society owes a great deal of debt to African slave labor. While I am opposed to slavery reparations due to the difficulty in its implementation and unfairness to current white Americans (not to mention Asians and Hispanics) who had nothing to do with slavery, the scale of the economic exploitation of African slaves and ancestors of today's African Americans does give you pause.

I welcome you to check the math to see where I am off.

[whatever you want]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

If we were to put a dollar value on the contribution of African slave labor to the US economy, what would that value be? According to this analysis Slavery and the American Economy

20 trillion dollars is a large sum of money. This is the value of uncompensated labor that built this country from the ground up. Just for kicks, I searched for data on how much money has been spent on social programs to support blacks. The data is hard to find, but one conservative website has estimated that since 1965 when Great Society programs were started, the US federal, state, and local government welfare programs combined have spent about $350 billion per year (spending less during the early years and gradually ratcheting up as time went on). So if we take an average of $350 billion per year, multiplied by 44 years, that gives you about $15 trillion.

This certainly doesn't mean $15 trillion has been spent on blacks, since not all beneficiaries of welfare programs are blacks (in fact, 53% of welfare recipients are white), and since not all blacks are on welfare (the great majority most likely are not). So the amount of welfare programs received by blacks is much less than $15 trillion.

The point being, American society owes a great deal of debt to African slave labor. While I am opposed to slavery reparations due to the difficulty in its implementation and unfairness to current white Americans (not to mention Asians and Hispanics) who had nothing to do with slavery, the scale of the economic exploitation of African slaves and ancestors of today's African Americans does give you pause.

I welcome you to check the math to see where I am off.

The reparations thing has always infuriated me.....NOBODY alive in America today owned a slave and there are no blacks alive today who were slaves so why would this issue even be discussed by anyone???? It's totally assinine......If the ancestors of slaves want or feel they are owed reparations, let them get it from the tribes who actually captured and sold their ancestors to slave traders.Point of purchase should be held responsible.

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by muleskinner

The reparations thing has always infuriated me.....NOBODY alive in America today owned a slave and there are no blacks alive today who were slaves so why would this issue even be discussed by anyone???? It's totally assinine......If the ancestors of slaves want or feel they are owed reparations, let them get it from the tribes who actually captured and sold their ancestors to slave traders.Point of purchase should be held responsible.

The issue is discussed not so much as to make reparations a reality, but because blacks are often criticized for being moochers and welfare abusers, when the numbers don't add up. It is also a matter of giving credit to where it is due. Just as we white people take pride in the accomplishments of our ancestors for buliding what was supposed to be a secular and democratic republic (an improvement over much of Europe where our ancestors escaped from), black people deserve to take pride in the $20 trillion of their ancestors' uncompensated labor that was used to build this country from the ground up.

[whatever you want]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

The issue is discussed not so much as to make reparations a reality, but because blacks are often criticized for being moochers and welfare abusers, when the numbers don't add up. It is also a matter of giving credit to where it is due. Just as we white people take pride in the accomplishments of our ancestors for buliding what was supposed to be a secular and democratic republic (an improvement over much of Europe where our ancestors escaped from), black people deserve to take pride in the $20 trillion of their ancestors' uncompensated labor that was used to build this country from the ground up.

I have no problem at all with the pride thing nor do I think we should marginalize the accomplishments of anyone who helped build this country,but I don't want to be victimized in the wallet for something I didn't do and pay people who themselves were not involved.That's the reason for my comment on reparations.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

If we were to put a dollar value on the contribution of African slave labor to the US economy, what would that value be? According to this analysis Slavery and the American Economy

20 trillion dollars is a large sum of money. This is the value of uncompensated labor that built this country from the ground up. Just for kicks, I searched for data on how much money has been spent on social programs to support blacks. The data is hard to find, but one conservative website has estimated that since 1965 when Great Society programs were enacted, the US federal, state, and local government welfare programs combined have spent about $350 billion per year (spending less during the early years and gradually ratcheting up as time went on). So if we take an average of $350 billion per year, multiplied by 44 years, that gives you about $15 trillion.

This certainly doesn't mean $15 trillion has been spent on blacks, since not all beneficiaries of welfare programs are blacks (in fact, 53% of welfare recipients are white), and since not all blacks are on welfare (the great majority most likely are not). So the amount of welfare programs received by blacks is much less than $15 trillion.

The point being, American society owes a great deal of debt to African slave labor. While I am opposed to slavery reparations due to the difficulty in its implementation and unfairness to current white Americans (not to mention Asians and Hispanics) who had nothing to do with slavery, the scale of the economic exploitation of African slaves and ancestors of today's African Americans does give you pause.

I welcome you to check the math to see where I am off.

Go for it! Once the reparation check is decided don't count your chickens too fast. Aside from orientals being enslaved to build railroads standing in line for same check, Women having been forced to be the "n*gger of the world" (quote Yoko Ono) would be eligible for that check from the black community as well as every other community for over 2,000 years of recorded history TO DATE. Ask your mom. See you in court sonny!

[thriftylefty]

Originally Posted by muleskinner

The reparations thing has always infuriated me.....NOBODY alive in America today owned a slave and there are no blacks alive today who were slaves so why would this issue even be discussed by anyone???? It's totally assinine......If the ancestors of slaves want or feel they are owed reparations, let them get it from the tribes who actually captured and sold their ancestors to slave traders.Point of purchase should be held responsible.

We always hear these arguments when the reparations rears its ugly head,
1. Africans sold slave. yes but the two slave systems don't have many comparisons beyond that. The white slave system was more brutal than the black system. but in defense of the white system, white people did'nt do anything to black people that they did'nt do to each other in Europe, Lopping off with heads, Boiling each other a live, strecthing, quartering, burning at the steak, Marrying relatives.
2. No white people today have slaves. Many white people and some black peoples wealth goes back to slave economy investments. John McCain and Senator Byrd are two that think right off hand might have some slave money still in the bank. Most people today cannot fathom the wealth of a slave baron in those day, it was 'nt so much that they were so rich, it was every body else was so poor, a poor white civil war soldier would have to save every penny for 15-20 years to purchase a single slave, he might be fighting for a man who owned over 1000. I think those slave barons owe poor people black and white Some Thing. I think reparations should be in Land grants to the poor

[Alanboy395]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

The issue is discussed not so much as to make reparations a reality, but because blacks are often criticized for being moochers and welfare abusers, when the numbers don't add up. It is also a matter of giving credit to where it is due. Just as we white people take pride in the accomplishments of our ancestors for buliding what was supposed to be a secular and democratic republic (an improvement over much of Europe where our ancestors escaped from), black people deserve to take pride in the $20 trillion of their ancestors' uncompensated labor that was used to build this country from the ground up.

As a black male, I think the black community can do something more productive than reflect back on slavery and ask for compensation. In my view, the black community is evolving before my eyes. More blacks in college, living in nicer neighborhoods, and creating nicer neighborhoods.

Dont tell me that me and Roland Martin are the only blacks who think that the black community should stop holding our breath for reparations before we turn into the blue community.

[delusianne]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

We always hear these arguments when the reparations rears its ugly head,
1. Africans sold slave. yes but the two slave systems don't have many comparisons beyond that. The white slave system was more brutal than the black system. but in defense of the white system, white people did'nt do anything to black people that they did'nt do to each other in Europe, Lopping off with heads, Boiling each other a live, strecthing, quartering, burning at the steak, Marrying relatives.
2. No white people today have slaves. Many white people and some black peoples wealth goes back to slave economy investments. John McCain and Senator Byrd are two that think right off hand might have some slave money still in the bank. Most people today cannot fathom the wealth of a slave baron in those day, it was 'nt so much that they were so rich, it was every body else was so poor, a poor white civil war soldier would have to save every penny for 15-20 years to purchase a single slave, he might be fighting for a man who owned over 1000. I think those slave barons owe poor people black and white Some Thing. I think reparations should be in Land grants to the poor

True that whites and Americans werent the only people who bought and sold slaves.

But reparation is a stupid, cold-blooded idea IMO. A broken heart isnt something a handful of cold money can repair. Reparations wont help the slaves themselves, or their children, or their grandchildren - anyone who would have the slightest personal connection to those days. What monetary value would you put on your great-great grandfather's life? Some amount determined by the government?

Obama has said repeatedly that no monetary reparations are forthcoming on his watch. "I have said in the past - and I'll repeat again - that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed."

[saganista]

The math will be too fuzzy to rely on in any case. Did Dr. Giles deduct the costs of the shacks and meals and clothing that were provided to millions of black slaves over all those years? The wood for their fires? Did he account for depreciation, or do his numbers assume that every dollar's worth of black slave production is still providing economic returns today? He doesn't really say.

The better bet I think is simply to recognize that, whether slave or free, the labor of blacks has built up from our earliest times a huge economic surplus that they were never fully or fairly compensated for. It is also important to realize that blacks were not alone. White slavery preceded black slavery in the colonies. American Indians were routinely captured and either enslaved here or sold off into slavery in the Caribbean. In the 19th century, Asians were all but enslaved, particularly in the west. All these have a similar story to tell, but the story of blacks stands out because of their much larger numbers, and because their slave experience has understandably become a part of their and our enduring culture, where the similar experience of others has not to anything like the same degree.

Having come to some recognition of the fact that the historical accounts remain far from square, what implications do we see? Do those implications change depending on whose mathematical estimates are used in an attempt to quantify them, or are they in fact no different even if no particular number at all is attached to them? Is there any action or combination of actions that could serve at this point to set the record straight? Which record is it exactly that is most in need of correction? Is it the economic issue that is central, or does what's important now actually lie in some different plane? I don't know the answers to all or perhaps any of these questions. I think that we are all left with a legacy that none of us much helped to produce, and that the best most of us may be able to do is to recognize that legacy and grapple with it as best as each of us finds that we are able to. With malice toward none, with charity for all, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations. There is sense enough yet left in those words, I think, for them to be of some guidance to us in these purposes...

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by muleskinner

I have no problem at all with the pride thing nor do I think we should marginalize the accomplishments of anyone who helped build this country,but I don't want to be victimized in the wallet for something I didn't do and pay people who themselves were not involved.That's the reason for my comment on reparations.

In theory, I am in favor of a limited form of slavery reparations. This ideally should involve actual descendants of African slaves being compensated by actual descendants of slave owners. Since it is very difficult to establish genealogy on both sides of the equation, slavery reparations will be hard to implement in real life.

However, there are corporations (eg JP Morgan, Aetna Corp etc) that still exist today that directly benefited from slave labor. Unlike individual human beings, corporations don't die, and their lineage is easier to trace. An argument can be made that these corporations should compensate the descendants of African slaves.