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Old 02-05-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,843 posts, read 2,370,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Well, probably on the day you turned 30 at least...

In that case I feel like two Lathers.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,847,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
AEI - Short Publications - The Trouble with Taxing Those at the Top (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.26354/pub_detail.asp - broken link)
Japan's Disastrous Keynesian Experiment (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.7119/pub_detail.asp - broken link)

Barack Obama’s Keynesian mistake - FP Comment (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/01/29/barack-obama-s-keynesian-mistake.aspx - broken link)



And just because the people who provide an analysis come from an institute that's not far left does not mean their POV's are invalidated.
Funny then you post a site that the Bush administration employed 20 econmist from. We all know how well they served our economy.

AEI - Support AEI - Becoming a Donor

Much has been learned from Japans lost decade.

Japan's lost decade | Business | guardian.co.uk
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,375 posts, read 20,801,239 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican View Post
I find it unbelievable that no one comes forward to provide the argument for tax-cuts economics! All I can do islaugh!
I'll give you one basic reason: those people earned it. The Federal government wasn't designed to confiscate the amount of $$ from those who have earned it, and redistribute it to someone else who hasn't. If you did this on the street, you'd be put in jail for theft.

The left today thinks it should have full control/license over what others earn. I reject that. Everyone of us should be able to keep as much money as possible. The only function federal government was intended to have in terms of allocated spending is toward the military, the courts and the police. It's all right here for your reference, in clauses 8, 9, and 10:

CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I -- Table of Contents

There are no provisions for 'stimulus' (welfare), section 8 housing, medicaid, etc.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:58 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
AEI - Short Publications - The Trouble with Taxing Those at the Top (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.26354/pub_detail.asp - broken link)
Japan's Disastrous Keynesian Experiment (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.7119/pub_detail.asp - broken link)

And just because the people who provide an analysis come from an institute that's not far left does not mean their POV's are invalidated.
Not far left???

AEI isn't even moderate much less any sort of left leaning think tank.

Anyway.

Without talking two weeks of analysis and rebuttal, suffice it to say that AEI compares a few apples to quite a few watermelons, but more importantly, even AEI doesn't refute Keynsian arguments just attempts to put forth that the application was ill-thought, with to a great extent is true but more of a result of Japan's ill thought out monetary policy.

"Since 1992, 60 trillion yen ($600 billion) worth of public works spending, the ultimate Keynesian stimulus, has done no more than to recycle excessive private savings [note; excessive saving is one of those watermelons] into Japan's depleted spending stream. Meanwhile, the deflationary momentum, so much feared by Keynes and created by the lingering effects of the Bank of Japan's overly tight monetary policy has not been broken."

Additionally, the AEI article stresses, not unsurprisingly, spends more time on the lifting of "regulatory burdens" and the need for Japanese workers to pay the lion's share of the burden for revamping the economy.

One, last thing. I found this to be quite interesting in light of the CD conservative mantra of "we need to save more" instead of spend during an economic downturn;

Japan's nervous households are still adding rapidly to cash balances. Japan's narrowest measure, of money cash and demand deposits, is still rising at a 12 percent annual rate, although, as a slightly encouraging sign, this is down from the 16 percent rate of increase at the end of the summer.
The rapid increase in Japan's narrow money is a classic symptom of a liquidity trap, where a rapid increase in the money supply does not bring about an increased demand for goods but simply reflects the public's higher demand for money balances to hold in a deflationary environment.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,448,256 times
Reputation: 5047
I read this today and thought it was an excellent one-line summary of the foolishness of corporate tax cuts, more than anything, in today's economy:

"While retail chains topple like so many dominos as consumers cut back, the Republicans focus on cutting corporate taxes, as though the problem confronting American businesses was the tax on their profits rather than the fact that, in the absence of sales, they have no profits."

The New Landonists
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:08 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,847,392 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
I'll give you one basic reason: those people earned it. The Federal government wasn't designed to confiscate the amount of $$ from those who have earned it, and redistribute it to someone else who hasn't. If you did this on the street, you'd be put in jail for theft.

The left today thinks it should have full control/license over what others earn. I reject that. Everyone of us should be able to keep as much money as possible. The only function federal government was intended to have in terms of allocated spending is toward the military, the courts and the police. It's all right here for your reference, in clauses 8, 9, and 10:

CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I -- Table of Contents

There are no provisions for 'stimulus' (welfare), section 8 housing, medicaid, etc.
I believe the most relevant document is this one. Its layed all layed out in section 8.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:39 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
Reputation: 4799
Jan. 1981
Dow - 1003.87
Nasdaq - 197.81
S & P 500 - 136
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Jan. 2009
Dow - 7956.66
NASDAQ - 1476.42
S & P 500 - 832.23
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
That's an increase for the DOW of 793%.
An increase for the NASDAQ of 746%.
While the S & P saw an increase of 612%.
28 years has seen an increase on the average of 717% increase or an increase of 25.6% a year.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Jan. 1945
Dow - 154.41
Feb. 1971
NASDAQ - 101.34
Jan. 1950
S & P 500 17.29
__________________________________________________ __________________________

From 1945 to Jan. 1981 or 36 years the Dow say a 650% increase.
From Feb. 1971 to Jan. 1981 or 1 month short of 10 years the NASDAQ saw an increase of 195%
From Jan. 1950 to jan. 1981 or 31 years the S & P 500 saw an increase of 786%
That's an average of 543% increase over an average of 25.6 years or 21.2% a year.

From the years stated the top tax brackets never went below 70% from 1936 to 1982. In 1982 it dropped to 50% and by 2009 to 28% with the exception of the Clinton years where it went up to 39.6%. The 50's saw the highest rate of taxes on the lowest tax bracket with the Reagan years having one of the lowest tax % for the lowest bracket since 1941 with 11%.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=19

(http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=163 - broken link)

Last edited by BigJon3475; 02-05-2009 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:50 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,375 posts, read 20,801,239 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican View Post
I believe the most relevant document is this one. Its layed all layed out in section 8.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
But you did not post remainder of that section 8, which in content, is where those taxes are intended to be channeled towards. I will now fill in the rest of the content of that section.

"To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

I see nothing in there in the order of: "To provide low cost housing for citizens" or "To provide free or low cost health care", etc.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,847,392 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
But you did not post remainder of that section 8, which in content, is where those taxes are intended to be channeled towards. I will now fill in the rest of the content of that section.

"To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

I see nothing in there in the order of: "To provide low cost housing for citizens" or "To provide free or low cost health care", etc.
You make me laugh. I guess you are arguing congresses power? Lets look at section 9 I see no limits of such programs. You have no argument.
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,375 posts, read 20,801,239 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican View Post
You make me laugh. I guess you are arguing congresses power? Lets look at section 9 I see no limits of such programs. You have no argument.
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.
Congress's limits are to

1) Fiscal Power

The Congress is responsible for levying and collecting taxes. This money is used to pay our country's debts and to provide for the defense and well-being of our nation. Congress controls borrowing money and coining and printing currency. They also establish standards for weights and measures and punish counterfeiters.

2) Trade Regulation

The Congress holds the power to regulate foreign and interstate trade. However, they cannot make a law, which would give an advantage in trade between two or more states.

3) Military Power

The Congress is responsible for defending our country by establishing a military force. The organization, arming, establishment of military laws - and seeing that military laws are enforced, belongs to Congress. Military power is shared with the president who is considered the Commander in Chief. However, the power to declare war is granted to the Congress.

4) Other Powers

Congress is also responsible for establishing rules for citizenship in the United States. They are required to maintain a post office, make laws for copyrights and patents, and govern the District of Columbia. The Constitution also granted the power to establish our federal court system to the Congress.

It has to be emphasized, once again, these are the only powers enumerated to Congress, via the U.S. Constitution.
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