No need for H-1B Visas with Unemployment Rates at new highs...right??? (salaries, drug)

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by oleo

How do you know they are lying on their resumes? I don't think that is the case. You can see people perform. You either can do it or you can't.

I've interviewed people overseas but for the purpose of outsourcing rather than bringing them over on H1B. Believe me, the primary motivation to hire professionals from abroad is no longer about qualifications but businesses cutting costs.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by oleo

Because they are skilled and can perform jobs better than most Americans.

Originally Posted by oleo

That sounds a little racist.

Well, Oleo, you said it better than I could have.

Originally Posted by bentlebee

You might think about another side....what if all other countries around the world will start to think the same...Have you given a thought how many Americans are making a living abroad? Some are there to set up American businesses who bring the profits back here to their family and are only working there for a couple of years and will return here...

You can't just blur out something without considering the other side...

No one's talking in absolute terms, bentlebee - there may well be occasional need to hire from outside the country, just as foreign countries might need to occasionally hire Americans.

It's just a problem when numerous American citizens are begging for a decent job, but those jobs are given en masse to foreigners who lie on their resumes and are willing to work for half the pay and no benefits.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

.......At first the workers were coming over on a 4 month visa university students can use then the company petitioned the USA government for H2B visas eligible for 5-9 months at a time. It worked for everyone as we could never attract enough Americans despite offering good pay and benefits for a ski town.

Now it's hard to say what will happen as this winter the number of H2B's got cut, yet they still have a hard time getting Americans. .....

So how did people in those countries find out about the ski jobs in a country thousands of miles away?

My guess is that it was through advertising. I'm further guessing that their way over and back was fully paid for, and that they were given lodging while here.

I'm also guessing that if as much money were spent on advertising those jobs here the USA (not necessarily just in college bulletin boards), and if housing were guaranteed just as for the aliens, and if the money spent on transporting the foreigners were spent on boosting the pay of Americans ..... why, I'll bet that those jobs would have a surplus of applicants.

[runningncircles1]

Originally Posted by sheenie2000

That's not a fair statement. Are they smarter than us? I don't think so. I think we all have similar capabilities no matter where someone grew up.

What would help is training and a support system.

I graduated knowing jack from my CS degree. I had a horrible time looking for a job as I graduated right after the dotcom bust. Yet all these indians were coming from abroad making more than I was. Why? Because they lied on their resume and have a great support system. They help each by moving heaven and earth. We don't do that.

We need to set up a similar training/support system for ourselves, our colleagues and our future generation.

Wait, wait, wait... you just ADMITTED knowing jack **** from the degree you attained, then go on to say that Indian workers lied on their resumes to get the same job. Did you ever think that, oh I don't know, they actually knew what they were doing? I know that I know Computer Science/ECE Engineering very well, and have been studying it extensively (and not just expecting the professor to transmit the info to me by osmosis). And, guess what? Many of my Indian peers who study Comp Sci know it VERY WELL. Just like medicine. There seems to be a value for education by Indians, as well as continuing to SELF-educate. That's very necessary to understand a difficult subject.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Wait, wait, wait... you just ADMITTED knowing jack **** from the degree you attained, then go on to say that Indian workers lied on their resumes to get the same job. Did you ever think that, don't know, they actually knew what they were doing? I know that I know Computer Science/ECE Engineering very well, and have been studying it extensively (and not just expecting the professor to transmit the info to me by osmosis). And, guess what? Many of my Indian peers who study Comp Sci know it VERY WELL. Just like medicine. There seems to be a value for education by Indians, as well as continuing to SELF-educate. That's very necessary to understand a difficult subject.

I don't think that anyone who graduates with a degree in CS knows jacksh$it about CS. Transferring academic knowledge to real world skills, though, takes a different kind of intelligence. There is no cultural monopoly on the ability to make this leap.

[runningncircles1]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I don't think that anyone who graduates with a degree in CS knows jacksh$it about CS. Transferring academic knowledge to real world skills, though, takes a different kind of intelligence. There is no cultural monopoly on the ability to make this leap.

Well, I would hope not, or they wasted a ton of money on a degree. But, she said she knew jack about CS. And, it's not THAT hard to transfer theory to real world. Believe me.

[Woof]

So runningcircles .... do you believe that Indians have some sort of special racial talent in computer science that American citizens lack? If so, how did you come by it (I'm assuming that you aren't from India)?

You seem to feel that the many Americans who need programming jobs are less worthy of consideration than the Indians ..... who coincidentally are willing to work for lower wages and no benefits. Look at all the Americans willing to work at it ..... and yet Microsoft and the others are begging for ......... noncitizens. Noncitizens who coincidentally are willing to work for lower wages and no benefits, but of course that has nothing to do with passing over qualified Americans to hire them.

[killer2021]

Originally Posted by oleo

Because they are skilled and can perform jobs better than most Americans.

exactly. They perform the job just as good if not better than americans. They drive the bottom line just as good if not better than an american. Just think about it. If H1Bs were not the above statement, do you think any company would hire an h1b? I don't think so, simply because their bottom line would be hurt and hence would go out of business. However, that isn't the case.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Woof

So how did people in those countries find out about the ski jobs in a country thousands of miles away?

My guess is that it was through advertising. I'm further guessing that their way over and back was fully paid for, and that they were given lodging while here.

I'm also guessing that if as much money were spent on advertising those jobs here the USA (not necessarily just in college bulletin boards), and if housing were guaranteed just as for the aliens, and if the money spent on transporting the foreigners were spent on boosting the pay of Americans ..... why, I'll bet that those jobs would have a surplus of applicants.

I think you'll find most major ski resorts are filled with aussie and kiwi staff and how it got started was the 4 month work visa university students could get. Because the seasons are reversed in the southern hemisphere the uni students who used this visa on their summer break from uni if they came to the USA ended up working in the ski towns because that's were the seasonal jobs were in the winter.

Nope their travel and visa costs are up to them alone. Most major ski town employers or ski companies such as Vail Resorts have employee housing which is an apartment share situation. The company I worked for housing was $400 a month when I started in 1999-2000 which was for a bedroom in a shared apartment and right now the cost is $550-$650 a month.

Speaking for the company I worked for labor shortages were common through the 1990's. In 1998-1999 an Australian worked for the company and he went back and spread the word around his university and in my first winter we had about 25 from Australia. Even now it is word of mouth with many returning year after year. There has never been a need to advertise down under due to work of mouth.

I worked there for seven years and yes we made many attempts to recruit Americans and yes we did have an American work force that staffed the company year round. Pretty much there is a standing offer to any American they can hire. Problem is with ski resorts is that most of the work is in the winter and the type of people that want a seasonal job like that are university aged and the ski season is winter and that is when American university students are in school, hence the southern hemisphere solution.

Also Australia and New Zealand have a cultural thing university students here don't really have and that is called The BIG O.E.(the big overseas experience). It's part of the culture to have overseas work experience before settling down back home down under.

Feel free to check with Vail Resorts or Aspen Ski Company and you'll find travel to the USA to work or visa costs are not paid by the company.

[sheenie2000]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Wait, wait, wait... you just ADMITTED knowing jack **** from the degree you attained, then go on to say that Indian workers lied on their resumes to get the same job. Did you ever think that, oh I don't know, they actually knew what they were doing? I know that I know Computer Science/ECE Engineering very well, and have been studying it extensively (and not just expecting the professor to transmit the info to me by osmosis).

Ok jack is an exaggeration.
I didn't expect anyone the profs to teach me by osmosis. Most of my professors couldn't speak english very well so we had to learn most of it on our own through books, reading, study groups etc.

Also when I graduated I said I was entry level because obviously I was. However these people from India say they have 5+ years of experience. Who are they going to take? The ones with experience of course and the one they could pay less and give no benefits.

And, guess what? Many of my Indian peers who study Comp Sci know it VERY WELL. Just like medicine. There seems to be a value for education by Indians, as well as continuing to SELF-educate. That's very necessary to understand a difficult subject.

Ok, so maybe they know the subject (but obviously don't have the experience initially bc they all lie on their resume), why do they know it better? Is it a failure in our educational system? How did they learn it? What are the steps and tools to learn that information here in States? Honestly, if someone gave me the guidance that I know now 8 years ago, I would be in a much better position. All it took was my husband hooking me up a job, learning some basic interview questions, and me learning some very simple things (in comparison to what I was taught in school). After that I was able to take off from there by reading manuals, documentations, and just simply asking for help from others.

Also, the Indians aren't better or smarter than us. I do the work either equally as good as them or better than them now.
I worked with one Java Developer who was very very good at what he did. HOWEVER, he had no idea what a memory stick was and how to change it out on a computer!! I don't know if others think that's weird, but if you are a computer person, to me that is something basic.

Anyway I don't think it has anything to do with Indians doing better than us, it's just that companies don't want to train us and Indians are willing to work 20 hours a day (which I think is changing). I also like I said before that I will repeat, the Indian support system is excellent. They all share knowledge with each other and train each other.
I think if Americans are given just a small starting point, they can thrive with it. However that opportunity needs to be given but the corporations won't give it because hey it'll affect their bottom line and their fat bonuses.

Also if this breeds too much socialism which sort of sounds like it does, what else can be done for Americans and the job situation here? Corporations are unfortunately the way many get jobs, so if they don't open opportunities for them, then how can an American get a job? How will they earn a living? We can't force the corporations to give a job, but then what? What do Americans do?