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Old 02-08-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: NoVa
1,192 posts, read 1,581,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleo View Post
Sounds like a Micky Mouse Club. Reputable employers would do a thorough background check. What kind of job is it? Wouldn't they expect someone with supposedly 5 years of work experience to be able to perform certain tasks?
You would be surprised to know there are still many big companies who don't do background check and drug test. Plus, international background check takes a long time to complete, depending on how thorough and how far back the background check is requested. For example, India background check will take 1-2 months to complete, China will take as much as 4 months to complete. So many companies forgo international background check because they don't want to wait that long for their new hires to start.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:02 AM
 
15,704 posts, read 21,113,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceC View Post
You would be surprised to know there are still many big companies who don't do background check and drug test. Plus, international background check takes a long time to complete, depending on how thorough and how far back the background check is requested. For example, India background check will take 1-2 months to complete, China will take as much as 4 months to complete. So many companies forgo international background check because they don't want to wait that long for their new hires to start.
Every one who enters in the USA is undergoing a kind of background check other wise you won't receive your visa...I understand that some countries are corrupt and the US should take a better look at their visa applicants but coming from Europe and having gone through the visa process....I have seen people in The Netherlands being refused a visa just at their first visit to the embassy....you get a kind of interview and you have to show papers and I have seen people leave in tears after being refused in front of many others who can over hear the person being asked questions....we were only send away to get a better pics. since there was a tiny shadow beside our ears on the pics. and the embassy told us to have the pics. redu....when you get to the approved photographer you start to think if this is a business deal or scam since 90% is send for the tiny shadow and only this photographer is mentioned by the embassy....maybe they have a deal...
For the rest the process is pretty strict and you have to remember when US worker go to work in other countries, the same things can happen...slow background checks, no background checks, etc...
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:21 AM
 
15,704 posts, read 21,113,336 times
Reputation: 6729
I have to add that most people in The Netherlands being refused a visa to the US were citizens who if you just listened to them talking...couldn't even speak the Dutch language well...probable became citizens by marriage and trying to get to the USA.....so we weren't to much surprised and actually happy that the process was taken very serious.
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
2,898 posts, read 4,504,695 times
Reputation: 2246
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheenie2000 View Post
In my team at my old company, we all became very close friends. There was 7 other people on the team. ALL SEVEN LIED on their resumes. 6 of them said they had 5 years of experience when they started out, when they really had ZERO years.

It took me 6 years to get to a level of work they were doing because I was stupid and told the truth on my resume. And I ONLY got the job because my husband was working there and the manager LOVED him so she hired me as well.

Honestly, I felt so stupid working for peanuts for years when I could have just done what they did years and years ago.
Live and learn... corporate America is not as straightforward as they would like you to believe. There is massive fraud and politics in many companies in upper level management but they will publish their official statement saying how honest they are and how much integrity they have In reality they are nothing but a bunch of lying thieves.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:47 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,605,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
So runningcircles .... do you believe that Indians have some sort of special racial talent in computer science that American citizens lack? If so, how did you come by it (I'm assuming that you aren't from India)?

You seem to feel that the many Americans who need programming jobs are less worthy of consideration than the Indians ..... who coincidentally are willing to work for lower wages and no benefits. Look at all the Americans willing to work at it ..... and yet Microsoft and the others are begging for ......... noncitizens. Noncitizens who coincidentally are willing to work for lower wages and no benefits, but of course that has nothing to do with passing over qualified Americans to hire them.
You really have to read the whole post. I said Indians value educating themselves more than most Americans, which I'll stand by. That does not equate to me saying they come out of the womb with a keyboard attached to their belly instead of an umbilical cord.

Currently, I teach computer science, and there is a dearth of American students within engineering and CS. It's a sad but true reality. Ever since the dotcom bust, many students have shied away from CS and CmpE because they're not making 200K right out of college... and they STILL have to work hard at it. That's why the CS curriculum seems watered down now. Instead, they move towards the liberal arts thinking they NEED a college degree for a job, or they go into finance and management to become *gasp* an investment banker to make 6 digit salaries. Guess which fields have a lower enrollment this year after the banking crisis...

Last edited by runningncircles1; 02-08-2009 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:53 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,605,659 times
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Quote:
I worked with one Java Developer who was very very good at what he did. HOWEVER, he had no idea what a memory stick was and how to change it out on a computer!!
I actually could believe that... CS doesn't teach you hardware parts like an IT degree or a CmpE degree(which goes a step further and tells you how it works, the circuitry, etc.). CmpE>IT>CS for hardware and CmpE>CS>IT for software.
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:14 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 10,563,503 times
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[quote=runningncircles1;7378505Currently, I teach computer science, and there is a dearth of American students within engineering and CS. It's a sad but true reality. Ever since the dotcom bust, many students have shied away from CS and CmpE because they're not making 200K right out of college... ..[/QUOTE]

I think it might also have to do with the fact that students see the degree to which tech companies are happy to outsource. Why go through the aggravation of CS/Engineering when you'll be employed and then end up training your substitute overseas? Better to go to med school, vet school, dental school, yes, even IB if you have math aptitude or even....law school. When will we begin outsourcing lawyers???
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:24 PM
Status: " All Shall Be Well; And All Manner of Things Shall Be Well" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Hunkering down atop Shasta
6,824 posts, read 6,544,314 times
Reputation: 5414
Quote:
Originally Posted by runningncircles1 View Post
...... Currently, I teach computer science, and there is a dearth of American students within engineering and CS. It's a sad but true reality. .......
Every single message board I've frequented (including this one) has had several American citizens who said that they couldn't get a job in computer science, but that they've seen foreigners get hired for those jobs.

I mean experienced American programmers.

Engineering is another matter entirely, I haven't seen much from engineers.
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:05 AM
Status: " All Shall Be Well; And All Manner of Things Shall Be Well" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Hunkering down atop Shasta
6,824 posts, read 6,544,314 times
Reputation: 5414

YouTube - PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans to secure green cards fo
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:15 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,605,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Every single message board I've frequented (including this one) has had several American citizens who said that they couldn't get a job in computer science, but that they've seen foreigners get hired for those jobs.

I mean experienced American programmers.

Engineering is another matter entirely, I haven't seen much from engineers.
I can also tell you that everyone I know that has graduated from my school in CS has found a job w/o experience. It's not worth a grain of salt, however.

Now, I know one problem in the field of engineering AND CS is age discrimination. As one gets older, if they haven't updated their skill set, they have a hard time finding a job. Unfortunately, CmpE/CS aren't fields where you can just get a degree/training and be set for life. It changes too quickly. New languages come about, infrastructure changes, and consumer needs change. However, having an actual understanding of the principles underlying those changes will allow a person to learn new things fairly easily. The principles change little if any and are the foundation of any new language, technology, etc.

Many programmers just learn syntax and some hardware. That is why they are merely "coders" and not computer scientists, and become dispensable when older. A true computer scientist shouldn't have trouble updating with the times if they've learned their fundamentals well.
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