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Old 02-10-2009, 04:59 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,921,854 times
Reputation: 15038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Could you see 6000 guys lining up to work
You mean like these folks?

Thousands Line Up For 35 Miami Firefighter Jobs

"How for example do they intend to find Qualified lineman to build all the transmission line needed."

Perhaps from the ones already laid off?

Telecom - Telus lays off 100 in landline use slowdown - Lineman Forum

"it takes 1 -2 years to become an Apprentice lineman."

It takes 15 minutes to become an apprentice, it takes up to four years to become a journeyman. There are quite few folks who work in skilled crafts who pay a small fee to work on unionized jobs until they can be accepted as apprentices. But to be an apprentice requires no prior work experience.

"What about the government regulations that slow down projects? Permits. etc."

I guess you missed the part about "shovel ready" jobs that have been approved but delayed due to financial restraints. Also, what the government regulates the government can unregulate as needed.

"It takes years to build a bridge if you follow the rules in place today....."

That's interesting for two reasons, 1. the issue isn't how long it take to complete a project, what is of concern is how soon can it get started. 2. The replacement for the I-35 West bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis was approved on Sept 19, 2007 and opened to the public on Sept 18, 2008.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,827,049 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The economy is cyclical, you will have ups and downs over time. We got out of the great depression, the question is was it because or in spite of the new deal. It would have passed, many (including respected economists) have presented data that indicated the ND extended the length of the recovery greatly.
If you drop the ideaology look at chart in post number 7 you will see the extreme downward trend reverses rather quickly once the New Deal was enacted.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,046 posts, read 6,262,657 times
Reputation: 1394
Quote:
Originally Posted by averagejoe76 View Post
This stimulus package looks like it will do more harm than good and..
Has alot of money for things that will not create jobs.
Do we really need to add another trillion to the debt??
Did we not learn from Hoover & FDR...???


The nutcase in the whitehouse I had high hopes for certainly didn't learn !!! Of course the nutjobs in Congress running the show are a disgrace to our Nation too. That poor waste of our tv time lies told by obama last night was very sick. I wonder how many people will buy into the bs of jobs saved or created by this trillion dollar waste they are about to force down our throats.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:16 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,234,034 times
Reputation: 7621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The economy is cyclical, you will have ups and downs over time. We got out of the great depression, the question is was it because or in spite of the new deal. It would have passed, many (including respected economists) have presented data that indicated the ND extended the length of the recovery greatly.
Of course we would have come out of the Depression eventually. The question is "when?". Certainly there ARE economists who argue that the New Deal prolonged the Depression - just as there are those who argue the opposite. Economists rarely all agree on ANYTHING. But I think if you look at the one major country that recovered the fastest it's pretty telling. Hitler launched a government-funded program that was like the New Deal on Steroids and the result was the unemployment in Germany was largely a thing of the past by 1936 (just 3 years after Hitler came to power). Now I'm not arguing that Hitler was good guy (clearly it was just the opposite) but the fact is, of all the major powers, he was the one who was most proactive in flooding his nation's economy with government money (even though they he didn't really have it) and employing people directly - and it was the ONE country that came out of the Depression the quickest.

That says quite a bit.

Ken
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,681,150 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You mean like these folks?

Thousands Line Up For 35 Miami Firefighter Jobs

"How for example do they intend to find Qualified lineman to build all the transmission line needed."

Perhaps from the ones already laid off?

Telecom - Telus lays off 100 in landline use slowdown - Lineman Forum

"it takes 1 -2 years to become an Apprentice lineman."

It takes 15 minutes to become an apprentice, it takes up to four years to become a journeyman. There are quite few folks who work in skilled crafts who pay a small fee to work on unionized jobs until they can be accepted as apprentices. But to be an apprentice requires no prior work experience.

"What about the government regulations that slow down projects? Permits. etc."

I guess you missed the part about "shovel ready" jobs that have been approved but delayed due to financial restraints. Also, what the government regulates the government can unregulate as needed.

"It takes years to build a bridge if you follow the rules in place today....."

That's interesting for two reasons, 1. the issue isn't how long it take to complete a project, what is of concern is how soon can it get started. 2. The replacement for the I-35 West bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis was approved on Sept 19, 2007 and opened to the public on Sept 18, 2008.
World of difference between stringing phone line and working high voltage. Send me some journey transmission linemen I could hire 10 tomarrow.....
And your bridge comparison is apples to oranges. They were reacting to a disaster and lifted most of the requirements normally needed. As for your Fireman job link? again apples to oranges. Try to find people to do hard labor like building roads, bridges etc. or even climbing poles (not a dis at firefighters! I wouldn't do your job!) never happen............
P.S. Here's a link for lineman jobs.... been openings for a looong time...
Lineman jobs | MySpace Jobs

AS for walking of the street and getting an Apprenticship.
AFSCME and IBEW will laugh in your face.
Try to read the OSHA requirement....
Electric Power Generation, Transmission, and Distribution. - 1910.269
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,046 posts, read 6,262,657 times
Reputation: 1394
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican View Post
If you drop the ideaology look at chart in post number 7 you will see the extreme downward trend reverses rather quickly once the New Deal was enacted.


Actuly, the downward trend was already over and had already made the turn around up when fdr's new deciet was enacted. The new deciet was enacted at a time people were still not sure and had made the mistake of thinking government was the answer. Government is never the answer, only the problem !!! See anything in the silly thinking of people today about looking to DC for answers in comparision to those who threw the Constitution under the bus with fdr?
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,246,106 times
Reputation: 15284
If we REALLY want to emulate FDR's solution to the Depression, we're going to have to provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor again.

Somehow, I don't see that happening. Especially since Hawaii is more a prefecture than a state, anyway.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:30 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,921,854 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The economy is cyclical, you will have ups and downs over time. We got out of the great depression, the question is was it because or in spite of the new deal. It would have passed, many (including respected economists) have presented data that indicated the ND extended the length of the recovery greatly.
Economies are cyclical and most economic downturns can be handled by monetary policy alone (as virtually very recession since the Great Depression has been dealt with). But this is far more than a cycle market correction.

As for the data presented showing the New Deal either had no affect or prolonged the depression, from what I have been able to read so far, those studies are based on mathematical simulations which may or may not have any basis outside of theoretical modeling.

The simple fact is that if you believe the upswing in GDP in 1933 and the downturn in unemployment, were the results of natural business cycles then you are left with trying to explain a 9.4% real annual rate of growth in GDP.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:31 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,827,049 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GO View Post
Actuly, the downward trend was already over and had already made the turn around up when fdr's new deciet was enacted. The new deciet was enacted at a time people were still not sure and had made the mistake of thinking government was the answer. Government is never the answer, only the problem !!! See anything in the silly thinking of people today about looking to DC for answers in comparision to those who threw the Constitution under the bus with fdr?
There is a similar thread labeled just like the new deal with a chart on the first page you might find of interest, since it shows you are wrong. Funny how I have suddenly heard conservatives care about the constitution again, how ironic.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,234,034 times
Reputation: 7621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
If we REALLY want to emulate FDR's solution to the Depression, we're going to have to provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor again.

Somehow, I don't see that happening. Especially since Hawaii is more a prefecture than a state, anyway.
No, we're just going to have to THINK BIGGER than FDR did.
It was the government SPENDING of WW II that put the final nail in the coffin of the Depression - not the FIGHTING.

Ken
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