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View Poll Results: Will the US collapse in the next four years?
No, it can't happen. The country is too strong. 49 27.37%
It could happen, but it's very unlikely 69 38.55%
Yes. But it would only be for a short time. 22 12.29%
Yes, and it would be all over. 39 21.79%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2009, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Ohio
2,175 posts, read 9,156,107 times
Reputation: 3961

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I think it has already collapsed.
Big brother and money hungry greedy exect's run the country.
They don't give a damn about the normal people.
They are too stupid to realize that the base of their foundation is crumbling. Our society is built on foundations of the working people who have money to spend to buy products that give suppliers a reason to make more products to meet the demand.
Once the greedy, get rich quick, company heads start raising credit card rates, selling houses on variable loan rates, knowing that this causes people to not be able to afford the payments, and then get government bailouts just so the bigwigs can get their already stuffed coffers to overflow, and then sell the debts to some company that may be across the ocean that when you want to try to talk to some person to work things out you talk to someone you can't even understand.
I am in I guess what is called the twilight years of life. In a way I'm glad I am. I got to live most of my life living in the greatest country on earth.
I fear that my kids and grandkids won't be able to live in the America that I was raised and lived in.
And that is a shame. These days it's all about control and greed.
Soon there will only be two classes of people. The very rich, and the very poor. There will be no middle working class with hopes and dreams and the ability to achieve those dreams. The poor will be slaves to the rich.
I never thought I would feel this way or ever write these words, but I see bad things happening in the future.
I have 6 kids, and 7 grandkids. I love them all. But there are times when I wish I didn't have any when I think about the future and what they might experience in their lives.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,924 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16637
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Libman
One corrupt empire would collapse, and 50+ new nations would be born - competitive, unique, and free!
Yes, that's why it may be not only inevitable but the best thing that can happen. It's the talk of an overly powerful, indebted out-of-control federal government that would collapse. Power would go back to the states where it belongs. We lost our Constitution some time ago, this would be the only way to get it back or anything reasonable again.

Free individual states is the way it was intended to be. States like California with it's spending addiction would also collapse, while states like Texas could possibly survive, the more responsible states that balance their budgets would come out ahead.
Such talk exposes the ignorance of the people and the victory of the "other side".

There is one reason why America must be preserved at all costs - it is the only nation with a republican form of government.
Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;....
[United States Constitution, Article 4, Section 4]
Most Americans have heard the old saying, "Our government is not perfect, but it's the best."
But why hasn't any other nation copied our form?
Out of curiosity, I wrote to over 30 embassies, asking about their form of government and if it was a "republican form". All replies were that they had "democratic forms" (parliamentary democracy, etc).

What you are about to read may stun your perception. You do not realize that you've been indoctrinated your whole life to be unaware of the facts. Proof is found in every county courthouse law library - but few bother to read the law. (Even lawyers don't "know" law - they know procedure.)

If you want to know what the "founding generation" thought about government's authority, consider this from the 1776 Virginia Constitution.
SEC. 6. That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses, without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assembled, for the public good.
All men ... cannot be taxed without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be bound by any law that is not for the public good.


Did you know you gave consent to be ruled, taxed, and dispossessed?
Did you know you surrendered your birthright to be sovereign, free,
and independent in exchange for socialist entitlements?
"Government is not Sovereignty. Government is the machinery or expedient for expressing the will of the sovereign power."
City of Bisbee v. Cochise County, 78 P. 2d 982, 986, 52 Ariz. 1

"People are supreme, not the state."
Waring v. the Mayor of Savannah, 60 GA at 93.

"The people of the state, as the successors of its former sovereign, are entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the king by his own prerogative."
Lansing v. Smith, (1829) 4 Wendell 9, (NY)

"At the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people and they are truly the sovereigns of the country."
Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 440, 463

REPUBLICAN (form of) GOVERNMENT. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people,... directly,.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary

SOVEREIGNTY - ...By "Sovereignty", in its largest sense is meant supreme, absolute, uncontrollable power, the absolute right to govern.
Black's Law Dictionary Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1396.
America's "self government" didn't mean democracy - but that each individual was sovereign - with independent and supreme authority over his person, property and in possession of natural and personal liberty.

But "they" never told you that volunteering to be a citizen was submission to the state. A sovereign and a subject are mutually exclusive. No monarch is a citizen of his domain.
"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)
OH REALLY?
How did sovereign people become subject citizens?

By consent.

Whether you know it or not, you were born an American national guaranteed a republican form of government, in which you had the potential to be sovereign, free and independent. But at birth, "someone" tricked your parents into enrolling you as a Socialist, via Form SS-5, only available to U.S. citizens *(subjects), and moved you into the democratic form of government, as a subject / serf.

Remember, involuntary servitude is unconstitutional. Therefore, all civic duties associated with citizenship (conscription, militia, jury, etc) are based upon voluntary servitude. Citizenship (and its duties) cannot be imposed at birth, without it being involuntary servitude.

So before you huff and puff about collapse as a solution to the excesses and abuses of the "democratic form", consider restoring your status at law as a sovereign American, served by government, under the republican form of government.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:49 AM
 
709 posts, read 1,495,932 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
I would assume that if one country fell, it would end in a flurry of Nuclear weapon exchanges from other countries trying to get the jump on one another. What is going to be left won't be much of anything recognizable for a couple of centuries.
It's centralized governments that brought the nuclear standoff to the brink, or at least that's what they want us to think. I've seen both sides of the Cold War, and, believe me, it was a sham on both sides. The Soviet military-industrial complex and the American military-industrial complex were the best of friends - each needed the other to stay in power. If it wasn't for America, first in WW1, then during the "red decade" of the 1930s, then in WW2, and then during the Cold War, the USSR would have been impossible to create and then to govern. External threat is what keeps dictators in power, and this is especially true today of places like North Korea or Iran.

In a free society, nukes are a liability. They cost billions of dollars to build and maintain, and you can't ever use them - instant death. And the marketplace would have a safety bias: would you rather buy socks made in nuclear Iran or relatively peaceful Yemen? Without the democracy sham draining all their energy, pro-peace activists would use boycotts and economic / social pressure instead, which is much more effective. Your girlfriend might dump you if you do business with the Happy Ayatollah Sock Company, and in a free society information about origin of goods and funds is particularly difficult to hide.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Western Hoosierland
17,997 posts, read 9,032,016 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
If America experiences currency collapse, breakdown of government services, unending civil disruptions, and shortages of necessary goods and services, do you believe the whole thing could fall apart?

I think that it could eventually. when it does I will be prepared to leave.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
"collapse" is an ugly word i like "power down",
running out of money is natures way of saying stop invading other countries and make your own
toys, dont buy them from enslaved starving chinese.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,924 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
"collapse" is an ugly word i like "power down", running out of money is natures way of saying stop invading other countries and make your own toys, dont buy them from enslaved starving chinese.
Without knowing the background, it would appear so.
However, the story is quite different, once you know the details.

1. "Running out of money" is a misnomer. Since 1933, the U.S. government has been bankrupt, repudiating its promise to redeem its notes (Federal Reserve Notes / aka / dollar bills) with lawful money.

2. The cause of that bankruptcy was usury, via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Within 20 years, the Treasury went bust.

3. The Congress operates under reorganization, partly due to the 300 million "human resources" who volunteered, via Socialist InSecurity, to be collateral on the public debt. Thus worthless notes become "legal tender" because all enumerated Americans are equally liable for paying the impossible public debt.

4. The usurer / socialist alliance has been the real power in the U.S.A., since 1935. Since socialism (and communism) are diametrically opposed to private property ownership, they are enemies of America and its lawful government. But as long as YOU volunteer, all bets are off.

5. Since 1945, Congress has not declared a constitutional war. But thanks to the "State of Emergency" declared by FDR, and renewed by each sitting president, partisanship notwithstanding, Executive orders have force and effect without the need for Congressional statutory support.

6. Chinese workers are not "enslaved" nor "starving", unless you mean that socialist China imposed involuntary servitude, and socialist USA does too.
:-)

7. The national debt, in excess of 10 trillion dollars, is not payable with FRNs. It is a legal obligation to pay 500 billion ounces of gold, stamped into dollars. Known world supply of above ground bullion is 5 billion ounces. Fort Knox has 147 million ounces. (D'Oh)

8. The Age of Cheap and Plentiful Oil ended (for America) in 1970s. Currently, 70% of consumption is imported, at great expense, and risk. Since the government uses taxpayer funds to subsidize petroleum consumption and bailed out "Big Auto", there is little hope of intelligent life in DC.

9. Congress borrowed more than it paid in interest, in 2007 and 2008. Paying past investors with new investor's money is what Bernie Madoff was arrested for.

Yup. Collapse is imminent.


But you may be sure that RECOVERY is near when:
[] Taxation drops to near zero, because the government now pays taxes.
[] Bureaucrats are an endangered species.
[] Government salaries are $21 / yr.
[] Bribery and Graft are capital offenses, with no appeal.
[] There is no public debt, because no one will loan to the deadbeat government anymore.
[] The "Socialist Safety Net" is found in the compost heap.
[] All laws that do not protect property rights nor have the people's explicit consent, are abolished.
[] Usurers are ashamed to show their faces in public, and "Usurer" is a pejorative term that starts a fight.
[] Bankers have all expatriated to Switzerland - but the Swiss arrested them all - and deported them.
[] Limited liability enterprises cease to exist - and all parties to an enterprise are jointly liable for the injuries they inflict.
[] The sheriff calls out the posse, when necessary. There is no police force (aka professional standing army).
[] Shooting a felon caught in the act rates a reward, and compensation for all ammo expended.
[] Speculation only refers to thoughts, not investment.
[] People can make their own medium of exchange.
[] All foreign bases are vacated, and all personnel are brought home.
[] Only fools go about disarmed.
[] Polite manners have become the norm, not the exception. Shooting off one's mouth is often followed by another shooting back.

(Your ideas here)
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,207,511 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
No nation stays on top forever. Rome was top dog once. England was top dog once too. Our time is limited, we are debt heavy, we cost too much.
Rome's power was broken by the weakenss in its own corrupt society. Britan could not reclaim its lost empire because they could not afford to, financially or socially.

We are crumbling inside as a society and have been for some time, and are bankrupting outselves trying to continue to be the world's policeman. Looking at history we are next.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,207,511 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
Um... The downside is, you more than likely won't be around to see it or most of your family and anyone you know.

I would assume that if one country fell, it would end in a flurry of Nuclear weapon exchanges from other countries trying to get the jump on one another. What is going to be left won't be much of anything recognizable for a couple of centuries.
We as the United States would cease to be a world power, and the vaccuum would create chaos. But I don't think the heavy nukes would be used. There are places that would be wiped off the map but everyone knows that eliminating a continent with nukes will bite you back in a big way. Eliminating an area in an area that makes something valuable, striking cities and transportation hubs and stopping the moving of goods will disrupt as much as making life impossible and if your the potential taker you don't get a complete wasteland.

As far as states, there would be regional governments. Fifty states each becoming independent entities would be balkanism at the extreme. Those in the same are with similar interests and balances of supplies would form their own nations and likely trade with other newly formed ones. Nobody form out there would intercede because who wants to get messed up in what could become civil war.

Anyone here watch Jericho? This is the kind of thing we debated endlessly during the show in the fourm areas about the mythology and how it might play our. Too bad CBS eliminated the board and all the ideas so carefully expressed.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:31 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,154,382 times
Reputation: 9622
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
We as the United States would cease to be a world power, and the vaccuum would create chaos. But I don't think the heavy nukes would be used. There are places that would be wiped off the map but everyone knows that eliminating a continent with nukes will bite you back in a big way. Eliminating an area in an area that makes something valuable, striking cities and transportation hubs and stopping the moving of goods will disrupt as much as making life impossible and if your the potential taker you don't get a complete wasteland.

.
Thanks to Jimmy Carter, we have neutron bombs that can remove all living things from an area, but be safe for occupation almost immediately. We have them; they don't. Where does that leave us? I don't know, but it's scary.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:37 AM
 
27 posts, read 67,804 times
Reputation: 16
The thing is, is that the one way to dispose of any government or the rights of people, is to do so, oh so very slowly.

But obama is moving so fast (with congress help) that it is obvious that we are soon to go from being a democratic republic, to some sort of socialist republic.


The only real way to fight it is to have a constitutional convention to somehow get it back.
Bad thing there, is a constitutional convention can make it worse if its not limited in scope.
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