low-income families most likely to quickly spend any tax relief they get (Walmart, money)
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We don't eventually have a problem. We have one right now. The only reason low-income workers do not pay net income taxes is because of welfare reform. You remember that. Workfare. We moved all the people off the welfare rolls over at HHS and put them on the rolls over at IRS instead. Now, if they work, they get their benefits as refundable income tax credits. The average bottom quintile worker would make about $16,000 per year. Now, his or her EITC would go on top of that, but after paying all of the other federal taxes, net income would still be better than $600 short of what it started out at. So, tell me your sob story again. How is it that YOU deserve a tax refund to help jump-start the economy, but these people don't?
For the record, I am AGAINST these gov't giveaways b/c they bypass the very ppl that deserve them. Just like like I am against corporate giveaways. The ideal (if the reality could even slighly resemble it) would be one with limited taxes and no welfare for the rich or the poor, where everyone pays taxes equitably and no discrimination over whether you are married, single or have kids. I'm tired of working hard only to have the gov't turn around and give this $$ to those that they deem to deserve the $$ more than me.
For the record, I am AGAINST these gov't giveaways b/c they bypass the very ppl that deserve them.
Who are those people again? Are you sure they're being bypassed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex
The ideal (if the reality could even slighly resemble it) would be one with limited taxes and no welfare for the rich or the poor, where everyone pays taxes equitably and no discrimination over whether you are married, single or have kids.
Well, tax policy is one of the most efficient and effective ways of encouraging and supporting behaviors that are beneficial to society. We wouldn't have nearly today's level of charitable donations, for instance, if they were to be no longer tax-deductible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex
I'm tired of working hard only to have the gov't turn around and give this $$ to those that they deem to deserve the $$ more than me.
Well, I work hard too. And the people who pay me seem to think I'm pretty good at what I do. Enough so that my federal income taxes are substantially higher than the median household income in this country, and what angers me most about that is that those taxes are TOO LOW. There are families of four out there who are trying to live for a year on less than what the Bushies have been sending me in annual tax cuts for years. That is criminal. It isn't me that needs the money. We seriously need to get our priorities turned around in this country...
Yes, those who actually PAY taxes do deserve their own $$ back. Those who pay the so called "payroll taxes" WILL eventually get them back (assuming that they live long enough) in the form of social security and medicare benefits. At least in today's world, the poorer classes also receive a higher proportion of what they paid into the system than those workaholics who slaved away since they were 15 years old or so. If the gov't REALLY has to give money back, why not devise a "voucher" system that can ONLY be redeemed to purchase hard goods/food/gasoline/lottery tickets, etc and not be socked away to pay bills by the "rich" middle class folk that you despise. This could be given to the taxpayers b/c the vouchers would ONLY be spent on those goods, money FORCED to go back into the economy not into a bamk account or paying off bills. And they really should stop giving refunds just b/c some ppl can't keep their legs closed and breed too many kids.
It seems to me that the technology must be there to administer such a program. Shoot, if the gov't is going to be "pissing away" money every few years, they ought to plan ahead for the next giveaway.
"""At least in today's world, the poorer classes also receive a higher proportion of what they paid into the system than those workaholics who slaved away since they were 15 years old or so. """
I got a shocker for you......SOME people who are poor now worked hard all their lives...that's a FACT.
"Poor" does NOT always equate with "lazy" anymore than "wealthy" equates with "worked hard all their lives".
Try reading for context. It's actually a very important part of things, so if you miss it, you might be left out in the cold. The OP's thesis was that taxes are HIS money. That's wrong. They are what he owes as his fair share for public goods and services produced for the benefit of a society that he is a willing member of. When he tries to deny the existence of his obligation to pay taxes, he is trying to consume public goods and services without having to pay for them. That makes him a freeloader, or at least a freeloader wannabe. Was it any easier to follow along this time?
That is not what you said and you were caught in your usual bipolar context, which is to say, you were accusing the gentleman to which you were speaking of being a freedloader if he did not want to pay taxes while defending your socialist comrades for not paying taxes. You were simply caught in your own schizophrenia and that is all.
You sir, are the poster child for defending socialism so long as it is your neighbors money that is being utilized and not your own. Never met a socialist that was not a hypocrit. It is the predominant qualifier for being a socialist. It is unfortunate that the Obamanites have seized the throat of goodness, greatness, and capitalist that is traditional America. I hope we can survive these pin head nerds.
Stick around son, Atilla will be here for you.
"""At least in today's world, the poorer classes also receive a higher proportion of what they paid into the system than those workaholics who slaved away since they were 15 years old or so. """
I got a shocker for you......SOME people who are poor now worked hard all their lives...that's a FACT.
"Poor" does NOT always equate with "lazy" anymore than "wealthy" equates with "worked hard all their lives".
This is a fact. I am disgusted by people who assume people are poor simply because they're too "lazy". What a rude presumption.
Who are those people again? Are you sure they're being bypassed?
Well, tax policy is one of the most efficient and effective ways of encouraging and supporting behaviors that are beneficial to society. We wouldn't have nearly today's level of charitable donations, for instance, if they were to be no longer tax-deductible.
Well, I work hard too. And the people who pay me seem to think I'm pretty good at what I do. Enough so that my federal income taxes are substantially higher than the median household income in this country, and what angers me most about that is that those taxes are TOO LOW. There are families of four out there who are trying to live for a year on less than what the Bushies have been sending me in annual tax cuts for years. That is criminal. It isn't me that needs the money. We seriously need to get our priorities turned around in this country...
Wow, you seem to be so generous. It's admirable that you'd like to give away more of your income, but keep in mind that the "family of 4" also gets a lot of tax breaks just b/c they are a "family of 4". They get a $1,000 tax credit for each kid, lower tax rates than a single taxpayer, more exemptions than a single, etc. Gov't needs to leave me the hell alone and keep its dirty paws off of my earnings. Gov't should not have the right to social engineer $$ and give them to whomever it deems is more worthy than me.
This is a fact. I am disgusted by people who assume people are poor simply because they're too "lazy". What a rude presumption.
It is people that work that are the salt of the earth and the fabric that holds a society togeather. If they struggle and make just enough to support themselves and their famileis they are worth as much as any wealthy man and they want no more than equal opportunity to work and to mange their own lives.
It is the socialist Karfar, that would remove that simple rule for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness from us. It is a matter of degree, however, you can believe with all your mind and heart, the Obama movement, is just as dangerous as the Castro or the Kruchev or the Chavez movements that have preceded him. It is just a matter of degree and it is something we should all fear and be of great concern regards.
You seem to be a lot more impressed with you than I am. Under-educated right-wing blabbermouths are a dime a dozen these days, you know...
Uh Huh...you definatley sound like a person that has read a lot. I have met many of the like in the real theatre of life. I have often been surprized by their backgrounds of erudition. Sometimes you are placed in positions where reading is about the only thing you have to do and arrogance is little more than a defense mechanism for otherwise flights of fantasy.
You might try being a little nicer to people to whom you engage. There are those among us that understand you perfectly well. You don't have to insult to make a point. If you have real sustance the substance will carry itself. We don't care how much money you have or even if you occupy an 8x12 cell. We are all equal here where ideas and courtesy are the preferred requirements.
Who are those people again? Are you sure they're being bypassed?
Well, tax policy is one of the most efficient and effective ways of encouraging and supporting behaviors that are beneficial to society. We wouldn't have nearly today's level of charitable donations, for instance, if they were to be no longer tax-deductible.
Well, I work hard too. And the people who pay me seem to think I'm pretty good at what I do. Enough so that my federal income taxes are substantially higher than the median household income in this country, and what angers me most about that is that those taxes are TOO LOW. There are families of four out there who are trying to live for a year on less than what the Bushies have been sending me in annual tax cuts for years. That is criminal. It isn't me that needs the money. We seriously need to get our priorities turned around in this country...
saganista, what gives anyone the right to make the same amount of money as their neighbor? Making a decent wage is NOT a right in this country, being able to pursue a good standard of living is. Nowhere does the Constitution guarentee equality of lifestyle for all Americans. If you are upset about families such as the ones you described, go help them! It is not the government's job to help those people! The government should protect our basic freedoms and basic rights, but that is it. Instead of asking for higher taxes, find a church that makes meals for low-income families (tell me the city you live in and I will even look one up for you) and do something about it yourself. It is unbelievable that you would complain about the part I bolded above. It is unbelievable that you complain about something such as that when you have the power to help solve the problem. Maybe once we 'get our priorities turned around' we will start helping people personally, rather than relying on government to do it for us. But then again, it is much easier to complain about taxes than it is to walk into a soup kitchen with a checkbook, isn't it?
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