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Old 02-14-2009, 10:08 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,976,972 times
Reputation: 4555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
Isn’t healthcare a privilege? Isn’t ANY welfare system a drain on everyone and not a benefit? The reason the US has some of if not the most talented physicians is due to the financial gain from it. Whether that’s good or bad it’s true. If we socialize medicine why wouldn’t people just go law school or some other field NOT government regulated and still profitable? Sounds like a disaster to me. Or is that redistribution of wealth? Maybe it sounds like both.

What if your knee or hip is blown out and you don't have health insurance? What good are those great American expensive doctors to you then? The emergency room will not help you.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:20 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,846,873 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
How would you feel?

When I say universal health care, I mean a single-payer health care system.

How would you want it to be funded? Taxes, coming out of our paychecks, employer's pay for it, a mix of private and public funds?

FRONTLINE: sick around the world: five capitalist democracies & how they do it | PBS

FRONTLINE: sick around the world: Graphs: U.S. Health Stats Compared to Other Countries | PBS

Health Care for All : NPR
Any one of them would be an improvement. The German or the Swiss model would probably be the most palatable here.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,846,873 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Pay for it by not wasting money paying HUGE saleries of health insurance company CEOs!

Mad About Medicine: CEO Compensation: Who Said Health Care is in a Financial Crisis?
Wow thats sickening. Goes to show the level of greed.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,846,873 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
Isn’t healthcare a privilege? Isn’t ANY welfare system a drain on everyone and not a benefit? The reason the US has some of if not the most talented physicians is due to the financial gain from it. Whether that’s good or bad it’s true. If we socialize medicine why wouldn’t people just go law school or some other field NOT government regulated and still profitable? Sounds like a disaster to me. Or is that redistribution of wealth? Maybe it sounds like both.
What an elitest statement. What do you base your belief on?
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,008,695 times
Reputation: 62204
There is no upside for the government running healthcare unless you don't have any at all so something is better than nothing.

Healthcare will be rationed. If you are 25 now, that may not seem like a big deal but eventually you'll be 60.

If I am not mistaken, didn't President Obama campaign on letting people who have their own insurance, keep it? I could swear he said that. Am I mixing up him with some other candidate?

This article is from 1992 so it is not politically motivated based on what is happening now. The link to the full report is below it.

"In the United States, the elderly have a privileged position with respect to health care. Medicare covers virtually all of them, plus people under 65 who are disabled. But in other countries, where the entire population is part of the same government-funded health care plan, the elderly are usually pushed to the end of the rationing lines. Thus, in Britain, it is extremely difficult for an elderly patient to get kidney dialysis or a kidney transplant - or any other transplant, for that matter. Moreover, pressures that have developed in other countries are developing in our own. Former Colorado governor Richard Lamm and other prominent individuals (including "medical ethicists") are calling for rationing health care to the elderly and reallocating the funds to the younger population."

Health Care Rationing (http://www.ncpa.org/w/w50.html - broken link)
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,811,747 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
There is no upside for the government running healthcare unless you don't have any at all so something is better than nothing.

Healthcare will be rationed. If you are 25 now, that may not seem like a big deal but eventually you'll be 60.

If I am not mistaken, didn't President Obama campaign on letting people who have their own insurance, keep it? I could swear he said that. Am I mixing up him with some other candidate?

This article is from 1992 so it is not politically motivated based on what is happening now. The link to the full report is below it.

"In the United States, the elderly have a privileged position with respect to health care. Medicare covers virtually all of them, plus people under 65 who are disabled. But in other countries, where the entire population is part of the same government-funded health care plan, the elderly are usually pushed to the end of the rationing lines. Thus, in Britain, it is extremely difficult for an elderly patient to get kidney dialysis or a kidney transplant - or any other transplant, for that matter. Moreover, pressures that have developed in other countries are developing in our own. Former Colorado governor Richard Lamm and other prominent individuals (including "medical ethicists") are calling for rationing health care to the elderly and reallocating the funds to the younger population."

Health Care Rationing (http://www.ncpa.org/w/w50.html - broken link)
There is a difference of rationing and prudent use of healthcare dollars.

I have seen hundreds of thousands of tax payer money from Medicare pay for extensive life prolonging measures for extremely elderly where there is no hope. A profit is being made on this but the patient still dies two weeks later.

As Death Nears, Health Costs Soar
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:57 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,976,972 times
Reputation: 4555
16% of Americans have no health insurance at all.

Another 8% are underinsured with crappy plans.

And these percentages are growing every year. ...If it hasn't already hit you, or a friend, or family member it will.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 5,001,071 times
Reputation: 3422
Just because you are an American citizen doesn't mean you have the right to "anything", but you do have the ability to pursue your desires. UHC is not free, when you give up your rights to chose and hand it over to the government, you lose. You can not have it both ways and the government knows this. Entitlements come at a cost, not only to the American taxpayer but in the choices you have. This country has fallen form the ideals of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, to a society based on "entitlements". When we depend on our government for our every day needs we have given up our rights as a Soverign Citizen of the United States, and we have created a grovernment for the people instead of a government of the people. We have made a government that does not reconize the soverignity of the states, but instead dictates to the states what they will do. Our country is a Republic, for those of you that don't understand what a Republic is I suggest you educate yourselves on this. When Ben Franklin was ask after the constitutional convention, "What do we have?" He replied, "A Republic, if you can keep it"

Here we are, 230 years later, giving this Republic away, because we think we are "Entitled".
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:02 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,976,972 times
Reputation: 4555
''Entitlements come at a cost""

So what? Overpriced medical insurance comes at a cost.

Surely you are not arguing that Americans would spend more with UHC????

Because we've posted objective data that shows they would pay less for healthcare ...in Western Countries more than 1/3 less.

They would SAVE MONEY
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,811,747 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Just because you are an American citizen doesn't mean you have the right to "anything", but you do have the ability to pursue your desires. UHC is not free, when you give up your rights to chose and hand it over to the government, you lose. You can not have it both ways and the government knows this. Entitlements come at a cost, not only to the American taxpayer but in the choices you have. This country has fallen form the ideals of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, to a society based on "entitlements". When we depend on our government for our every day needs we have given up our rights as a Soverign Citizen of the United States, and we have created a grovernment for the people instead of a government of the people. We have made a government that does not reconize the soverignity of the states, but instead dictates to the states what they will do. Our country is a Republic, for those of you that don't understand what a Republic is I suggest you educate yourselves on this. When Ben Franklin was ask after the constitutional convention, "What do we have?" He replied, "A Republic, if you can keep it"

Here we are, 230 years later, giving this Republic away, because we think we are "Entitled".
I don't think of it an an entitlement, I think of it as compassion. As with education, you would still have a right to pay for and pursue private health care in addition, or in place of, the univerally funded system.
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